Pauline Dispensationalism

[God's Trombone]

Aliya, dramama, and Countrybumpkin,

I just want to thank you and all who give me encouragement in my efforts to present the Word of Truth. (II Tim. 2:15, Eph. 1:13)

I take no credit for merely passing on, as well as I can, what the Apostle Paul passed to us from Christ.

I rely on others to teach me these truths and I have a long way to go yet.

I also watch Les Fel **** on TV, as well as listen on www.paltalk.com to many good grace teachers, e.g. "Grace 101" at 10 am est mon-fri.

Also, we are in good hands with the Berean Bible Society. www.bereanbiblesociety.org

Thanks again. :)

[God's Trombone]

Peter is not the foundation of the church, what he said was the foundation.

Matthew 16 (King James Version)
15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

At this
time and place the "Church, the Body Of Christ" is still hidden in God, and not referred to by Christ. He refers to the same church we see in early Acts, that which is preparing to go into the kingdom of heaven on earth. In fact, Peter IS in leadership at that time.

19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

That scripture confirms my point that Christ is speaking of an earthly kingdom (church)

20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.


Peter got the keys to the kingdom, the rock is "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Though Peter's flock were a "first fruits" of the prophesied kingdom, Christ didn't return to set it up because the nation of Israel, in which the kingdom is prophesied to exist, rejected their King, Christ. What happened next magnifies the greater goodness , mercy and long suffering of our God-- rather than Christ returning from His heavenly throne in vengeance upon his enemies on earth, thus bringing the wrath of God on the earth, as will happen as prophecied in Revelation, God saved Chris's greatest enemy Saul and gave him the Gospel of the Grace of God, by which not only a Jew could be freely saved for eternity, but ALL men, even the far off Gentiles whom sought not after God could be saved by simply believing that Gospel.Romans 11:13-15
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

[HeIsEnough]

Preaching Christ crucified and risen, is the gospel of grace.

:nod


1 Corinthians 1 AMP

12What I mean is this, that each one of you [either] says, I belong to Paul, or I belong to Apollos, or I belong to Cephas (Peter), or I belong to Christ.

13Is Christ (the Messiah) divided into parts?...


Same as it ever was....

[God's Trombone]

Acts 4:33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
Acts 9:15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

WHY did Christ save and call Saul when He had Peter et al already?

19And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

20And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Clearly before Paul could speak his Gospel of Christ he must convince the Jews who He was.

In chapter 10 Peter is being instructed to talk to gentiles, as well.

Peter "speaks" to a Gentile who fears the God of Israel and follows the Jewish law-= Cornelius. Peter says nothing other than his good news spoken at Pentecost. He knows nothing of Paul's grace (mystery hidden in God) at this time. Look again at what Peter says to Cornelius:

Acts 10
1There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

17Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

18And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

19While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

20Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

21Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

28And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

29Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?


34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Peter does'nt know Christ's revelation of the mystery to Paul (Acts 9) and merely remarks that "in every nation (Gentile too)he that feareth (the God of Israel)Him AND WORKETH RIGHTEOUSNESS (keeps the law), is accepted with Him. In short, Cornelius and his cohort were then proselytes to Judaism. Peter had no new revelation of Paul's Gospel to the Gentiles not associated with Israel.

As these scriptures show, Acts is more of a transition book. Before the cross was to the Jews only, after the cross, to all.

These scriptures show: Acts chronicles the fall of Israel after they are offered the kingdom even after the cross and shows Christ from heaven saving and commissioning Paul with an entirely new Gospel to take to Jew and Gentile alike. During Acts, God ceases dealing with Israel, and the little flock awaits "the end." Paul preaches his Gospel to all men, Jew and Gentile and is opposed by Jews and especially "Judaizers" (those Jewish believers who demand that Gentiles cannot be saved without the law and Jewish religion. Sound like today?:nod

Preaching Christ crucified and risen, is the gospel of grace.

The Gospel of grace is:
I Cor. 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

What your definition lacks and what Peter didn't know or preach is "that Christ died for our sins." And Paul adds "according to the scriptures" because the scriptures do prophecy that, though Peter rebuked Christ when Christ spoke of being killed.Matt. 16:21,22

[HeIsEnough]

1 Corinthians 3

21So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, 22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[c] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.


1 Corinthians 12:13
For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.


1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection of Christ
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. [B]11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

It doesn't get any clearer. Whether it was the original eleven who preached it or Paul, it is the same. One faith, one hope, one belief.


1 Peter 1

10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Peter understood things as he was given them. His primary audience was to the people of Israel. The message was the same.


2 Peter 3

14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position. 18But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

I see no division between Paul and Peter. This "two gospel" thing and this "two body" thing is a heresy. It doesn't add to anything, nor does it annul the Lords promises to natural Israel. As both grew and the Spirit increased and sharpened their understanding, so they related these things to us, for there is:


Ephesians 4

4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

[God's Trombone]

Heisenough,

If you insist on trying to mix law and grace, Paul's Gospel with Peter's, Israel and the Body of Christ, you may do so.

The misuse of verses is evident in your quotation of Paul when he is addressing those who received HIS Gospel and try to make us believe he is addressing Peter's disciples who heard Peter's message but never heard Paul's. As in your eisegesis above of Eph. 4:4.

We, nor the recipients of Eph. 4:4 are definitely not One with the saints of the "Little Flock" as they didn't receive the Word of Truth, the Gospel of our salvation. (Eph. 1:13)

Nor was it preached to them, ever.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

[Lexie]

:nod



Same as it ever was....

HE,

If there is no difference, how come people are not being healed, in the manner, they where then? Why is it people, who try and walk on water drown? Is there prophets and apostles? if so, who are they? Why aren't people dying instantly, for holding back funds, and not telliing the truth? Why isn't the church, selling everything they have, like the Jew's, did in Israel? Why do some people teach, there are no longer men, women, Jews, Gentiles, slave, free as if they do not exist anymore?

[HeIsEnough]

If you insist on trying to mix law and grace.


I said no such thing.


The misuse of verses is evident in your quotation of Paul when he is addressing those who received HIS Gospel and try to make us believe he is addressing Peter's disciples who heard Peter's message but never heard Paul's. As in your eisegesis above of Eph. 4:4.

My understanding and interpretation are just fine, you don't understand what I am saying, and that is fine to. Believe whatever you will, the scriptures I posted speak for themselves, they are the word of God.

It is you who insist that all the Apostles except Paul preached they must keep the law in order to be saved. That is a false gospel, and not good news at all. As I said, believe what you want, but the word of God states there is one faith, one hope, one salvation. Not two.

When your systematic theology calls for you to make unbiblical and untrue statements, I'll be here to set the record straight. Adios.

[tekton]

It doesn't get any clearer. Whether it was the original eleven who preached it or Paul, it is the same. One faith, one hope, one belief.



Peter understood things as he was given them. His primary audience was to the people of Israel. The message was the same.



I see no division between Paul and Peter. This "two gospel" thing and this "two body" thing is a heresy. It doesn't add to anything, nor does it annul the Lords promises to natural Israel. As both grew and the Spirit increased and sharpened their understanding, so they related these things to us, for there is:

Thanks

[BlessedinHim]

The Gospel of grace is:


What your definition lacks and what Peter didn't know or preach is "that Christ died for our sins." And Paul adds "according to the scriptures" because the scriptures do prophecy that, though Peter rebuked Christ when Christ spoke of being killed.Matt. 16:21,22

I think you are really wrong here.


Acts 3 (King James Version)
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.


Acts4: 12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.