Pauline Dispensationalism

[dramama]

dramama,

Posters indeed did bring up a different gospel, a different body. Pauline dispensation addresses these things in that manner. The point being that to add to the gospel like that, and Paul affirmed they taught the same thing, is indeed a heretical teaching. I don't use that word lightly, but we all need to be diligent to keep the gospel crystal clear. These things also have implications for the Jew today, which I bet is indeed also a problem in the church today. Sorry if this offends you in some manner.

If you feel that the early Apostles in Jerusalem taught a different gospel, then speak up, because the scriptures do not affirm that.

Who other than Paul taught the mysteries? And what implications does this have for the Jews today? Are you saying that by me saying Paul taught things the other disciples didn't I have a problem with the Jewish people or I don't think the Gospel is to be preached to the Jews first, or that perhaps I'm into replacement theology? If so then yes I am offended, you know nothing about me and if you'd read the scriptures you'd see that things were revealed to Paul only including the dispensation of Grace. I have stated my postions in each of my posts so I have "spoken-up", I have also said the Gospel message is the same and what different body are you talking about? I don't like the things you are implying about me, you obviously don't get what is being said, sorry if that offend you in any way. Have a nice day. (no need to reply to my post)

[kenod]

One of the contributing factors to the kingdomization of the Church is the breakdown of the distinction between the “kingdom of God,” and the ‘”kingdom of heaven.” During the last 20 years or so dispensational leaders have been forsaking the distinctiveness of the kingdom of heaven as set forth in Matthew, more and more making it synonymous with the kingdom of God.

Many find it untenable to hold this distinction because kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God appear to be used interchangeably by the Gospel writers in the same discourse. Even Matthew himself appears to use the terms interchangeably:

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.


Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.


Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mark 4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;


Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mark 4:30-31 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
Luke 13:18-19 Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.


Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Luke 13:20-21 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.


Mat 18:2-3 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.


More examples can be found at:
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/157.htm

[HeIsEnough]

Who other than Paul taught the mysteries?


Paul revealed the mysteries he was given. A search shows the mysteries he was given.

An important one for those wrapped up in replacement theology.


Romans 11:25
[ All Israel Will Be Saved ] I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

The Lord made the prophetic writings come alive for Paul


Romans 16
25Now to him who is able to establish you by my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him— 27to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

An 'on your feet' resurrection for those still living when He comes. We know it is the rapture.


1 Corinthians 15

50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Curious word he uses here, namely "us"


Ephesians 1

7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Here he directly states the mystery (of most importance) was made known to him, he affirms it was made known to the other Apostles (whether through Paul himself or through the Spirit to them) It was also the means which God used to declare it to those in heavenly realms (angels, left shoulder or right)


Ephesians 3
Paul the Preacher to the Gentiles
1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

7I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God's grace given me through the working of his power. 8Although I am less than the least of all God's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11according to his eternal purpose which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence. 13I ask you, therefore, not to be discouraged because of my sufferings for you, which are your glory.


Understanding what it is, it is clear that many proclaimed the mystery (we do today) which God used to unveil through Paul. The timing is less critical, and no one is stating here that they preached what Paul preached before Paul received it. (though a case can be put forth that the eleven preached all the essential elements which we adhere to today) The main contention is what did they preach after it was unveiled to Paul.(which Paul affirms it was also made to be understood to them as well) A strong case in the scriptural record show they understood and affirmed it. That their primary audience was the Jew meant they walked circumspect in proclaiming it, lest they die at the hands of the same ones who crucified Christ. (as they tried to do to Paul who's boldness was unmatched...you can see Peter's actions when around certain Jews and see he was far less bold)


Colossians 1
24Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


Colossians 2

1I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.


And what implications does this have for the Jews today?


The implication is that it is the same message, whether Paul preached it or the other eleven. If we say the other eleven had a different message, than that message is still binding to the Jew today. I'm relatively certain you don't believe that, but you have opportunity to state differently if you like.

Are you saying that by me saying Paul taught things the other disciples didn't I have a problem with the Jewish people or I don't think the Gospel is to be preached to the Jews first, or that perhaps I'm into replacement theology? If so then yes I am offended, you know nothing about me and if you'd read the scriptures you'd see that things were revealed to Paul only including the dispensation of Grace. I have stated my postions in each of my posts so I have "spoken-up", I have also said the Gospel message is the same and what different body are you talking about? I don't like the things you are implying about me, you obviously don't get what is being said, sorry if that offend you in any way. Have a nice day. (no need to reply to my post)

You seem offended by something, but its not me doing it. I've said nothing against your person. You have ample opportunity to state your case, if you so choose, according to the scriptural record. I'm not even saying you are actually saying anything different than me, but I do know you came into this thread 'hot' on my posts, as it were..

Did it ever dawn on you that I indeed do "get" what is being said? The implications of a dual gospel message are far reaching. The implications of a dual body of believers in the new covenant era, are far reaching. They reach down to today.

[God's Trombone]

The implication is that it is the same message, whether Paul preached it or the other eleven. If we say the other eleven had a different message, than that message is still binding to the Jew today. I'm relatively certain you don't believe that, but you have opportunity to state differently if you like.

You evidently do not get it for Paul's letter to the Romans is clear in teaching that God stopped dealing with Israel as "His people" and scattered them into the Gentile world(Hosea 1:9, Rom.11:25)(Rom. 11:15)There is no Gospel today other than that Paul preached. Thus, God's grace and the mystery revealed to Paul (Gospel of Christ) Rom. 1:16 is now the Gospel by which all men Jew and Gentile can be saved. You err in your understanding of the words written on the page. Christ sent the 12 only to Israel, and he Himself said He came only to Israel. ( Matt. 15:24) By inspiration of God Paul wrote: Rom. 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
II Cor.5:19-21
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jews are not excluded from this reconciliation today.

You do have a strange take on the scripture. That you have company in your error is only a sad thing.

[HeIsEnough]

You evidently do not get it for Paul's letter to the Romans is clear in teaching that God stopped dealing with Israel as "His people" and scattered them into the Gentile world(Hosea 1:9, Rom.11:25)(Rom. 11:15)

From Peter himself, one of the very few you want to identify as being in the 'little flock' which you claim God sealed and added no more to it from the stoning of Stephen.


1 Peter 1

1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood:
Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
Praise to God for a Living Hope
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.


There is no Gospel today other than that Paul preached.

Exactly


Thus, God's grace and the mystery revealed to Paul (Gospel of Christ) Rom. 1:16 is now the Gospel by which all men Jew and Gentile can be saved. You err in your understanding of the words written on the page. Christ sent the 12 only to Israel, and he Himself said He came only to Israel. ( Matt. 15:24) By inspiration of God Paul wrote: Rom. 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Except for all the scripture which proves you wrong, you're correct. Interesting how the Lord Jesus told them to take the message to the world, yet you say they were to only minister to Israel, that God 'sealed up' the little flock at Israel's rejection:


Matthew 28

The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

It's only a question of timing friend. To the Jew first, then to the gentile.


Jews are not excluded from this reconciliation today.

I am fully persuaded Peter and the other Apostles counted themselves to be in the very same body as I reside, that being Christ.


1 Peter 5
To Elders and Young Men
1To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ's sufferings and one who also will share in the glory to be revealed: 2Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.


You do have a strange take on the scripture. That you have company in your error is only a sad thing.

Your pontifications notwithstanding, speak to the argument, not my person or other blood bought believers in this thread. Thank you.

That I don't agree with Stanford et.al bothers you. That is fine, they are not my Shepherd.

[tekton]

Christ sent the 12 only to Israel,

Then why did Peter speak to both Jew and Gentile?

Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

[BlessedinHim]

Many find it untenable to hold this distinction because kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God appear to be used interchangeably by the Gospel writers in the same discourse. Even Matthew himself appears to use the terms interchangeably:

Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Luke 7:28 For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.


Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Luke 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.


Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mark 4:26 And he said, So is the kingdom of God, as if a man should cast seed into the ground;


Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:
Mark 4:30-31 And he said, Whereunto shall we liken the kingdom of God? or with what comparison shall we compare it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which, when it is sown in the earth, is less than all the seeds that be in the earth:
Luke 13:18-19 Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it.


Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
Luke 13:20-21 And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.


Mat 18:2-3 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Luke 18:16 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.


More examples can be found at:
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/157.htm

Very interesting, thank you for posting that.

If the Kingdom of God or Heaven is on Earth, are the Jews and those who are here during the millenial kingdom gonna have glorified bodies? Or, could the Kingdom of God or Heaven actually be after the millenial reign and after the great white throne judgement? After all, in the end we will be one group when it is all said and done.

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

I think there are different "Kingdoms" for lack of a better way to put it. During the millinium, we will not be here on the earth in flesh bodies, at least to my understanding, we will have glorified bodies at this time. But the Jews who remain from Daniels 70th week, will be the ones who will be here for that, possibly anyone who refused the mark, I am not sure about this particular point, will be repopulating and living on the earth. We will be ruling with Christ? I am not sure on this part right now. I am in great need of further studies in this area. So, I am a bit confused about who is gonna be on the throne during the millenial kingdom. I thought Jesus was gonna be, but someone else has said that David would be. I personally just understood that the lineage of David would be which would say Christ will be.

After the millenium, and the great white throne judgement, then all believers, Jew or Gentile, will be one group of people, not 2. But for now, we are 2 groups in belief.


:feedback

[BlessedinHim]

After the cross I believe it is indeed the same message preached, from the 11 and Paul. Before the cross, they couldnt preach Christ and Him crucified and risen, because that hadnt happened yet. So before the cross, it was a little different. They were blinded in part until the fullness of the gentiles are come in. Again, after the rapture, all those Jews that didnt accept Christ now will be dealt with during the tribulation and through the millenial kingdom. Those who reject Christ and His Gospel of Grace have a different road to take, so to speak. They will go through Daniels 70th week.

I would say that before the cross during the ministry of Jesus on earth, the gospel was "incomplete" because Jesus hadnt completed "it is finished" it yet. After the cross, the full Gospel had been told them, whether by Jesus or the Holy Spirit, they then got the full message and that is what they then did preach, first to the Jew and then to the Gentile.

I dont think there are 2 gospels, just incomplete before the cross, finished after the cross. So, that might "look like" 2 gospels.


:feedback

I certainly dont get this little flock thing. I dont see any distinctions to accomodate this.

[Aliya]

I think the big difference is where 'Law' and 'Grace' break. Paul's mystery is the start of a new administration/stewardship/dispenstaion, per his own (inspired) words. The difference in the gospel of grace (or 'my gospel' as Paul calls it) vs the gospel of the kingdom is there (I think) but is subtle. The distinction is easier for me to see if I put Law, Prophecy and the Kingdom on one side, and Grace and Mystery on the other.

Prophecy belongs to the Jewish economy. What things were prophesied? Christ's coming, Christ's Crucifixion, the Messianic Kingdom and the salvation of the Gentiles. All of that fits together. Peter wasn't surprised that Gentiles were saved (necessarily) but that they would be saved and be no different than the Jews. They didn't have to follow Jewish ways. Also perhaps that the Holy Spirit was given to them without baptism and repentance, wihtout keeping of the law. (Joel's prophecy of the Holy Spirit being poured out on sons and daughters was for Israel, and here the Gentiles had the Holy Spirit poured out on them too).

Then there is Mystery. These things were not prophesized in the scriptures. They were revealed directly to Paul. Paul really was amazing, when you think about it. He not only had to carry the gospel to the Gentiles, he had to shift the thinking of the Jewish believers in Christ to this new revelation. So the real question is- what is the Mystery?

The Mystery is not that Gentiles would be saved - it is that Jews and Gentiles would be made into one body - the body of Christ. Not only would they be one body, they would all be baptized by the Holy Spirit, and immediately justified, sanctified, and glorified. No waiting! No being justified by works or keeping the law. They were reconcilied to God the moment they believed because of Christ's blood and his finished work of the cross.

In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit could come upon believers for a time, but never a permanent indwelling. That is because their sin covering by the blood of animal sacrifice was a temporary covering only. When we believe that Christ's blood is shed for us as a permanent covering for our sin, we are imputed his righteousness and reconciled to God immediately and forever. We are now clean - the Holy Spirit comes on us immediately. We don't need to be baptized, we don't need to repent. How could we? As a Gentile not living under Law, I did not REALLY know what sin was. And since I wasn't keeping law, I didn't know I was unclean and in need of a ceremonial cleansing to go with my new understanding. Water batpism is a Jewish ceremony; it does not cause a permanent change. The one baptism that is the permanent change that comes over us is when the Holy Spirit changes us and makes us part of the Body of Christ. I repented AFTER I was saved and the Holy Spirit began the new work in me, convicting me of sin. I was baptized and it is a wonderful memory, but it wasn't a requirement for a Gentile under Paul's gospel.

Another part of the Mystery is that the body of Christ would be removed before the wrath and vexation. Paul's wording indicated he believed he would be raptured alive even. If you read the epistles and accounts of the twelve, they were preparing for the Kingdom! They were believers in Christ, under law, and they were preparing for the time of tribulation and the return of Jesus to set up his kingdom. Paul was preparing to be raptured out with the body of Christ. The twelve were still in prophecy and law; Paul was in mystery and grace. Both knew the good news about the Messiah.

Clearly a transition happened and it is not cleanly shown to us. Many say the transition happened at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came. That doesn't make sense to me, because Paul says the revelation given to him is the new dispensation/stewardship of the Mystery. The Holy Spirit being given at Pentecost fits prophecy and the age of the Mosaiac law and nothing at that time was known of the mystery of the Body of Christ.

When Israel rejected the kingdom is where some would say the transition occurred - with the stoning of Stephen. The Kingdom was put off for a time, and the Mystery began with or sometime after Paul's conversion. He was bapitzed and repented (he was a Jews, after all!) and he was given signs and wonders (for apostolic authority), then he was educated about the new revelation of the Mystery. The transition then happened over a period of years.

It is interesting to me that when you read about the kingdoms in Daniel, we see the Roman empire (legs) and the revived Roman empire (feet). The prohpetic program could have continued from week 69 to week 70 uninterrupted. The gospel of the kingdom that Jesus proclaimed should have progressed with Israel repenting of killing the Messiah (they were not set aside for killing Jesus, that had to happen) but if they had repented and accepted him, the wrath and vexation would have come, the good news would have been taken to the Gentiles with every Jew a priest, and when it was over, the Messianic kingdom would have begun. This 2000 year long 'interruption' put an age of pure grace - an age of the Body of Christ - between Law Age and the Kingdom Age. Prophecy fits without this 2000 years and with it. That is a mystery too - only God could do that!

I'm not trying to sway anyone's belief. But if possible, set aside denominational beliefs and all the commentaries, and simply read the bible. Use it to interpret itself. I am so blessed by what the Holy Spirit has shown me. I started by reading Paul's epistles and making a list of all the references to 'his' gospel and to mystery. Then I went back to the twelve and looked at the gospels and their letters. I asked questions of people. The answers were enlightening between those who referred me to scripture vs those who referred me to theology books. I don't think God intended us to need a degree in theology to understand his word - especially considering he gave us the Holy Spirit!

:wave

Off to learn some more :yay

[Hootmon]

Interesting post, Aliya