Pauline Dispensationalism

[Aliya]

The Holy Spirit is doing an amazing work in me right now, just as the scriptures promised! I still have things I don't understand or can't reconcile - prophecy is primarily around earthly blessings and promises, and mystery is around heavenly blessings and promises, but I am so excited to study the word I am forgetting to sleep. :)

[BlessedinHim]

The Holy Spirit is doing an amazing work in me right now, just as the scriptures promised! I still have things I don't understand or can't reconcile - prophecy is primarily around earthly blessings and promises, and mystery is around heavenly blessings and promises, but I am so excited to study the word I am forgetting to sleep. :)

I can understand what you mean. Since I started this study on Pauline dispensationalism, it has been something. I have been enjoying and taking in all the posts back on this and reading and studying, too. My husband probably thinks I just want to do this all the time. It has been like, oh, I do need to fix some dinner, dont I ? hehe Or it is just a minute and an hour later, oh, just a minute, my family is sure to think I dont know what a minute is.

I am not taking mans word over what the bible tells me, but using this study is more like a guide to questions. and the bible answers them.

This is being an enlightenment for me as well.

I do wish someone would give me their in put on some of my previous questions, tho.

[Aliya]

I do wish someone would give me their in put on some of my previous questions, tho.

I couldn't keep up with all the posts :stars But I would love to study with you and try to figure out things. With the Holy Spirit nudging two of us, we're bound to see the light sooner vs later! But you would have to point me to the posts or restate what you're mulling over... :S I sort of have a list of what I'm mulling over, too.

[CountryBumpkin]

I think the big difference is where 'Law' and 'Grace' break. Paul's mystery is the start of a new administration/stewardship/dispenstaion, per his own (inspired) words. The difference in the gospel of grace (or 'my gospel' as Paul calls it) vs the gospel of the kingdom is there (I think) but is subtle. The distinction is easier for me to see if I put Law, Prophecy and the Kingdom on one side, and Grace and Mystery on the other........



:nod:wave excellent post!

[God's Trombone]

HIE posted-From Peter himself, one of the very few you want to identify as being in the 'little flock' which you claim God sealed and added no more to it from the stoning of Stephen.

i NEVER wrote the above. Did that come from Stanford?

I don't find any scriptural record of a certain point when the last member of the Little Flock was added. I have said that I don't follow Stanford because he erroneously says the Kingdom saints of Acts 2 are part of the Body of Christ. That is scripturally impossible since the Body of Christ is a mystery not revealed until Acts 9.Show me where, if you can, Peter saying to the thousands of Jews who believed his Gospel, "Now, we have a new revelation from Paul,the kingdom is on hold, forget what you were told, forget the water baptism, you now can believe Paul's "Grace without works Gospel." :lol2


HIEMatthew 28

The Great Commission
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[a] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

It's only a question of timing friend. To the Jew first, then to the gentile.The following was unintentionally capitalized:

PETER, JAMES AND JOHN THEMSELVES UNCOMMISSIONED THEMSELVES FROM MATT. 16:28 IN ACTS 15. THEY DID THIS BECAUSE OF ISRAEL'S REJECTION AND also because of LEARNING OF PAULS GRACE FROM CHRIST TO THE GENTILES. MY POINT THAT YUU REJECT OVER AND OVER IS THAT ONLY PAUL WAS THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES, AND THAT THEY NEVER PREACHED PAUL'S GOSPEL TO JEWS OR GENTILES. AS THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE KINGDOM THEY WERE TO REMAIN FAITHFUL TO WHAT GOD HAD TOLD THEM AND TO ENDURE TO THE END. THEY HAD A UNIQUE IDENTITY AND THE BODY OF CHRIST HAS A UNIQUE IDENTITY. WHEN YOU TEACH THAT THEY PREACHED THE GOSPEL PAUL PREACHED YOU AND OTHERS THEN FOLLOW WITH ADDITIONS TO PAULS GOSPEL YOU TAKE FROM THE KINGDOM APOSTLES TEACHING. THUS PERVERTING PAULS GOSPEL.

[BlessedinHim]

I perceive that the only real difference between Peter and Paul is who they were to preach to. I believe that is what the mystery is about.

after the cross, the gospel of grace began.

Before the cross, they could not preach Christ and Him crucified, but after the cross, that is what they preached. to Jew and Gentile alike.

the preaching before the cross was about the Kingdom, but they rejected Jesus and crucified Him instead just as it was prophecied. Upon the crucifixion that put the Jews on hold at the end of week 69. After the fullness of the Gentiles is come in, then the rapture, then the 70th week will commence. But, while the time of the Gentiles is being fulfilled, Jews can come to the cross and believe and be part of the church before the 70th week begins just like we can. In the end of everything, we all become one body, one church.

[BlessedinHim]

I couldn't keep up with all the posts :stars But I would love to study with you and try to figure out things. With the Holy Spirit nudging two of us, we're bound to see the light sooner vs later! But you would have to point me to the posts or restate what you're mulling over... :S I sort of have a list of what I'm mulling over, too.

I was looking for input back on page nine of this thread, I put in the input please signs.

[God's Trombone]

#175 BY HIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Trombone
Jews are not excluded from this reconciliation today.

I am fully persuaded Peter and the other Apostles counted themselves to be in the very same body as I reside, that being Christ.[/quote]

The scripture teaches otherwise. That Peter, John and James were informed of his Gospel by Paul (Acts 15, Gal. 2)is sure. That they thereupon bound themselves NOT to preach to Gentiles, but to preach the circumcision Gospel to their flock is also sure.(Acts 15)

#176 from tekton

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Christ sent the 12 only to Israel,

Check this out: Acts 10:2828 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.
Tekton wrote-Then why did Peter speak to both Jew and Gentile?

Act 10:42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?[/quote]

You might have started your post with these statements from scripture instead of quoting me:

"I am not sent but to the house of Israel" -Christ

"Go not in the way of the Gentiles"-Christ

"Christ was a minister of the circumcision ... to Israel."-Paul

"We (Peter, James, and John) will go to the circumcision, and Paul to the uncircumcision" -Paul (Gal.) The Apostles in Acts 15.

As to Peter's encounter with Cornelius, I point out again to you that Peter didn't have anything to tell Cornelius about Paul's Gospel. Compare Acts 10:35 to Paul in Titus 3:5.

35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

These verses are direct opposites of each other.

Peter's whole discourse is bereft of mention of Pauls gospel, but speaks of the same message of the kingdom of heaven on earth preached by John the Baptist, Christ on earth, and the 12.

Paul's Gospel is unique and was hidden till Acts 9.

[God's Trombone]

After the cross I believe it is indeed the same message preached, from the 11 and Paul. Before the cross, they couldnt preach Christ and Him crucified and risen, because that hadnt happened yet. So before the cross, it was a little different. They were blinded in part until the fullness of the gentiles are come in. Again, after the rapture, all those Jews that didnt accept Christ now will be dealt with during the tribulation and through the millenial kingdom. Those who reject Christ and His Gospel of Grace have a different road to take, so to speak. They will go through Daniels 70th week.

I would say that before the cross during the ministry of Jesus on earth, the gospel was "incomplete" because Jesus hadnt completed "it is finished" it yet. After the cross, the full Gospel had been told them, whether by Jesus or the Holy Spirit, they then got the full message and that is what they then did preach, first to the Jew and then to the Gentile.

I dont think there are 2 gospels, just incomplete before the cross, finished after the cross. So, that might "look like" 2 gospels.


:feedback

I certainly dont get this little flock thing. I dont see any distinctions to accomodate this.

For Peter and the Apostles both before and after the crucifixion of Christ, everything was centered on the prophesied kingdom of heaven on earth, where Christ would reign from David's throne in Jerusalem. First of all,they didn't understand Jesus going to the cross, next, they didn't expect Him to resurrect. When He ascended to heaven, they expected Him to return during much tribulation and bring wrath and vengeance upon His enemies. That's what Peter was talking about in Acts 2, 3,4 etc. The flock that responded to Peter and the other 11 had supernatural powers preparing them to go through the coming tribulation before Christ would return. They even sold all they owned and had a commune so that they wouldn't be subject to Christ's enemies whom wouldn't allow them to buy or sell. Why did they become poor and have to receive relief from the Gentile church Paul led? Because the power of healing and supernatural provision was gradually leaving them during the time of Acts, analogous to the gradually falling Israel.

But God had a plan, a hidden one, to form the Body of Christ by offering free grace to anyone who would believe that Christ "died for our sins". (I Cor. 15:3)That this had been "hidden" is clear from the message Peter preached after the cross at Pentecost DID NOT contain any reference to it. Peter was continuing to offer the kingdom to Israel at that time. Read what he said (Acts 2)

You cannot have it both ways--- either the messages were different or the words on the paper mean nothing. I will be glad to try to help if you have further questions. This is rather difficult for those who have not been shown it before.

[GratefulGentile]

Since Paul wrote in the bible.

1 Corinthians 9:17
For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
This does not refer to a "church age"----but rather a personal stewardship.

Ephesians 3:2
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

The Elohim of Israel has demonstrated His marvelous grace throughout all the ages. This is not a reference to a so-called "church age".


Colossians 1:25
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Again, this is a personal stewardship. He said "I am made a minister..." There is no "church-age" in this verse.

Just because the "word" exists in the Bible it does not make the man-made theology (after which it was named) to be true. Dispensationalists take every one of these verses (and many others) entirely out of context and offer them up as very lame "proof-texts".

All lies, my friend. Just look at this nonsense.... some of it sounds downright anti-Semitic...

http://withchrist.org/MJS/paulinedis.htm

The Lord Jesus Christ loves His Church, for whom He gave Himself on the Cross. He did so that He might cleanse and sanctify her with the washing of water by the (rightly divided) Word of truth. He would present her to Himself a glorious Church, not having Charismatic spot, nor Covenant wrinkle, nor any such thing, but that she should be holy and without earthly Jewish blemish (Eph. 5:25–27).

The glorified Lord delivered His sanctifying and glorifying message exclusively to His Bride through Paul—a life-giving Word infinitely higher than His earthly message to the nation of Israel. The Pauline Gospel, governed by Pauline Dispensationalism, belongs to the Church.

Most dispensationalists and all Covenant theologians fail to realize that there are two Gospels, each dependent upon the Blood of the Cross. The one Gospel is earthly (Kingdom), the other is heavenly (Grace). Both Gospels are “according to Jesus,” and present only one way: by faith.
By "faith" in what? Lies?

The arrogance in this reeks.

Poor and wretched blindness.