Pauline Dispensationalism

[BlessedinHim]

Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

This made me to think He was preparing them, but they rejected it because they had to in order to go through with the crucifixion, but afterward, they could still receive the gospel. WOW!

[Lexie]

Acts2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Here again in Acts 2, Peter does indeed preach Christ and him crucified and risen. Same message again. He has presented the gospel. Perhaps Peter didnt say it the same way Paul says it, but it is the same message.

Blessed,

Are the Jew's alive today, the same Jew's, who handed Jesus, over to the Romans? Are you personally responsible for the Romans, who beat and nailed Jesus, to the cross 2000 years ago? We all killed Jesus.

[BlessedinHim]

Blessed,

Are the Jew's alive today, the same Jew's, who handed Jesus, over to the Romans? Are you personally responsible for the Romans, who beat and nailed Jesus, to the cross 2000 years ago? We all killed Jesus.

I think you missed my point here. I am very well aware that all our sins were the root cause for His death on the cross. And the post was referring to in that time frame, not our time frame.

[HeIsEnough]

Show me where, if you can, Peter saying to the thousands of Jews who believed his Gospel, "Now, we have a new revelation from Paul,the kingdom is on hold, forget what you were told, forget the water baptism, you now can believe Paul's "Grace without works Gospel." :lol2


Acts 15

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Here is Peter, the Apostle to the Jews stating God made no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

Here is Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, stating their hearts and our hearts are purified by faith.

Here is Peter, the Apostle to the Jews, stating the gentiles heard the gospel "from my lips" AND BELIEVED.

It can get any plainer than this, and I am at a loss for words on how to explain it more better.

And, if you insist water baptism to be a requirement for salvation for the Jews back in this day, then you ignore examples in the scriptural record stating otherwise.


The following was unintentionally capitalized:

PETER, JAMES AND JOHN THEMSELVES UNCOMMISSIONED THEMSELVES FROM MATT. 16:28 IN ACTS 15. THEY DID THIS BECAUSE OF ISRAEL'S REJECTION AND also because of LEARNING OF PAULS GRACE FROM CHRIST TO THE GENTILES. MY POINT THAT YUU REJECT OVER AND OVER IS THAT ONLY PAUL WAS THE APOSTLE OF THE GENTILES, AND THAT THEY NEVER PREACHED PAUL'S GOSPEL TO JEWS OR GENTILES. AS THE FIRST FRUITS OF THE KINGDOM THEY WERE TO REMAIN FAITHFUL TO WHAT GOD HAD TOLD THEM AND TO ENDURE TO THE END. THEY HAD A UNIQUE IDENTITY AND THE BODY OF CHRIST HAS A UNIQUE IDENTITY. WHEN YOU TEACH THAT THEY PREACHED THE GOSPEL PAUL PREACHED YOU AND OTHERS THEN FOLLOW WITH ADDITIONS TO PAULS GOSPEL YOU TAKE FROM THE KINGDOM APOSTLES TEACHING. THUS PERVERTING PAULS GOSPEL.


Honestly, I don't know why you insist on this take of things. I would go through each point you bring up to justify your belief, but I feel you will never agree no matter what any one shows to you in the scriptural record. It is a belief for just beliefs sake.

[HeIsEnough]

I think it is unlikely that all the apostles stayed in Israel. There is a strong tradition that Thomas went to India. And Peter writes his first epistle from "Babylon" (either a euphemism for Rome, or the real Babylon) 1 Peter 5:13

And Johns travels as well...and disciples he made outside of those in Jerusalem.

[HeIsEnough]

I think the big difference is where 'Law' and 'Grace' break. Paul's mystery is the start of a new administration/stewardship/dispenstaion, per his own (inspired) words. The difference in the gospel of grace (or 'my gospel' as Paul calls it) vs the gospel of the kingdom is there (I think) but is subtle. The distinction is easier for me to see if I put Law, Prophecy and the Kingdom on one side, and Grace and Mystery on the other.

Prophecy belongs to the Jewish economy.

An interesting verse for you to consider.


1 Peter 1

10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.


It was all prophesied, though God can and does hide things in plain sight. Also, consider what Paul used to persuade many Jews of the authenticity of his message, the scriptures.

[HeIsEnough]

It was all prophesied, though God can and does hide things in plain sight. Also, consider what Paul used to persuade many Jews of the authenticity of his message, the scriptures.

Speaking of this....I can't emphasis enough how the Spirit has blessed me in viewing these things in this manner.

We know that Christ made the outright claim that the scriptural record in His day was all about Him. This spurs us and even the Apostles and ECF's to intently search the old testament for affirming the salvation which came to us. Paul was the master of this, and his training by the Holy Spirit affirms this. But another unique aspect we have is to search the gospels themselves for every point that Paul preached. It has been and will continue to be a wonderful and glorious affirmation that our God is awesome, telling us of His work before we even understand it.

I realize not everyone can accept this....most especially in a thread concerning Pauline dispenationalism. Certainly one practical benefit is that our grasp of the Torah becomes more firm, and we can converse with a knowledgeable Jew about the Messiah which has come.

[God's Trombone]

The Holy Spirit is doing an amazing work in me right now, just as the scriptures promised! I still have things I don't understand or can't reconcile - prophecy is primarily around earthly blessings and promises, and mystery is around heavenly blessings and promises, but I am so excited to study the word I am forgetting to sleep. :)

Thanks for posting that about Prophecy and Mystery!
For years and years I had no idea how the Bible contains both these. If we lack that understanding we don't see the Word of Truth so we can get a grip on it.


Prophesy:Reveals things to come-
Genesis through Gospel of John
Then The Mystery intervenes:"Hidden/kept secret until revealed:
Romans through Philemon.

Then Prophecy continues:
Hebrews through Revelation

All prophetic scripture is about Israel and God's promises to Israel, His dealings with Israel past and future.

All mystery scripture is about the Body of Christ and is never revealed in prophetic scripture because "hidden in God."

Rom. 16:2525 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,


I Cor. 2:77 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Realizing the existence of both prophecy and mystery in scripture enables us to obey II Tim. 2:15.15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

And-

What is "the Word of Truth?"Eph. 1:1313 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So, it becomes plain- Obeying II Tim. 2:15 is rightly dividing (isolating) the Gospel of OUR SALVATION in the scriptures.

[Aliya]

Thanks for posting that about Prophecy and Mystery!
For years and years I had no idea how the Bible contains both these. If we lack that understanding we don't see the Word of Truth so we can get a grip on it.


Prophesy:Reveals things to come-
Genesis through Gospel of John
Then The Mystery intervenes:"Hidden/kept secret until revealed:
Romans through Philemon.

Then Prophecy continues:
Hebrews through Revelation

All prophetic scripture is about Israel and God's promises to Israel, His dealings with Israel past and future.

All mystery scripture is about the Body of Christ and is never revealed in prophetic scripture because "hidden in God."

Rom. 16:2525 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,


I Cor. 2:77 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Realizing the existence of both prophecy and mystery in scripture enables us to obey II Tim. 2:15.15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

And-

What is "the Word of Truth?"Eph. 1:1313 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So, it becomes plain- Obeying II Tim. 2:15 is rightly dividing (isolating) the Gospel of OUR SALVATION in the scriptures.


It is interesting to pull Paul out - he clearly lays out a gospel of grace, a clear plan of salvation, and his hope was the rapture and the heavenly promises. Hebrews - Revelation (which I am studying now, looking at what they have in common and contrast to Paul) do not lay out a clear plan of salavation and those books are an encouragement to essentially Jews (seemingly under Law/works) to endure through the tribulation with their great hope the Messianic Kingdom. It is a fascinating division and really does clear up so much. :yay

[God's Trombone]

Acts2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

Here again in Acts 2, Peter does indeed preach Christ and him crucified and risen. Same message again. He has presented the gospel. Perhaps Peter didnt say it the same way Paul says it, but it is the same message.

Please considerthe implications of what you are saying here against what the scripture says which you quote. Peter in indicting
Israel for killing their own Messiah. Is this "good news?"

:scratch
He calls upon them to repent of their "sin" of not believing in Christ as the Messiah and killing Him.
It is a further offer of the kingdom. If Israel as a nation had responded in repentance, it would have been the occasion of the end times, with Christ bringing wrath and vengeance upon those who didn't believe, and then the kingdom being set up.

Now what did Paul's Gospel say?

Compare Peter in Acts 3:21 with Paul in Rom. 16:25:

21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Against-
25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Here is the KEY for you:

What is missing from Peter's message in Acts 2 and following?

It is this:

I Cor. 15:33 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

Can you honestly say that the two messages are "the same?":twitch:ohno