Pauline Dispensationalism

[Harley]

The content of what Peter preached to Israel is one thing: Christ rose from the dead to be King of Israel.

The content of Paul's Gospel he received from the Lord in heaven is another thing: Christ is the head of the Body of Christ, the church. The Jews he preached to came into the Body. He didn't preach what Peter preached about going into the Kingdom on earth with Christ ruling from David's throne in Jerusalem. One has to see that God has a separate destiny for Israel, to be fulfilled after the Body of Christ is filled up in this age.

Thanks. I completely disagree, but I appreciate the synopsis.

[HeIsEnough]

I take from this that you take Paul's announcing that his revelation "was hidden from the foundation of the world" to not mean what it says, but that he meant "was hidden in the scriptures."

I would say that's quite a large "departure." :)

I take it you do not consider the whole of scripture on this subject. I even was conciliatory toward you and your view, though I don't really know why I was.


Acts 3:18
But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Christ would suffer.


Acts 3:21
He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.


Acts 3:24
"Indeed, all the prophets from Samuel on, as many as have spoken, have foretold these days.


Acts 10
42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."



Romans 1

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David,


Romans 3:21
[ Righteousness Through Faith ] But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,[/B]


1 Peter 1:9-11

10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.

And so on and so on. Your theology doesn't seem to account for any of it.

[Mechaberean]

1Corinthians1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness. Here is what we are to preach in our age. They weren't preaching it and didn't understand it. Peter when Jesus first revealed it said "Not so Lord be it far from you", then after Jesus died they ran to the tomb and wondered what happened to teh body after He arose. What they were preaching is Jesus ruling on Earth thats why John teh Baptist doubted when thrown in jail because he knew the Kingdom of Heaven and teh Kingdom of Heaven is physical and "when my kingdom is of this world my servants fight" Jesus said. So John expected Jesus and His servants to fight and get him out, and conquer His enemies. The kingdoms are different and one is only for the Jews if you believe the words in the bible in Matthew10:5. In fact Matthew 10 tells the whole history and future of this kingdom from beginning to end and its never given to any but Israel when they are the focus. But the kingdom of God he said to the Jews I will take from you and give to a nation that will believe. Thats why Paul only mentioned Kingdom of God its all he preached, can't find him mentioning the other at all. Now you can show me where its for us in scripture???? I just proved it is not and it would hold up in a court of law.

[Harley]

Seems to me that Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this world.

I hope you were just being hyperbolic when you said "The kingdoms are different and one is only for the Jews if you believe the words in the bible..."

[HeIsEnough]

Now you can show me where its for us in scripture???? I just proved it is not and it would hold up in a court of law.

Well counsel, here is a start...


Matthew 4

Jesus Begins to Preach
12When Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, he returned to Galilee. 13Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali— 14to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah:
15"Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali,
the way to the sea, along the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles—
16the people living in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death
a light has dawned."[e]

17From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near."


Mark 1

14After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"

16As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.


The very same event, two different ways to say the same thing.

You really should do a comparative analysis of these two terms. You will find they are describing the same events quite often, hence no substanative difference in meaning. Search the net as well, many have already done this analysis.

Kingdom of heaven = Kingdom of God

[BlessedinHim]

I still say, if there were 2 different messages, then that would have created confusion, since in several places in the book of Acts, there is Peter and Paul preaching to Jews and Gentiles. If they preached 2 different messages, there would have been mass confusion. The message Peter preached, was the message Jesus left with him after the resurrection. So, either the atonement was once for all and was good enough to cover all the sins of the people who accept Him, or it wasnt good enough for any. There is ONE gospel. Preached first to the Jews, to the Samaritans and then to the Gentiles. The word says to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles. It didnt say preach this message to the Jews and then go preach this other message to the Gentiles.

[Mechaberean]

1Corinthians2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew(Jewish prince or Gentile; none=none): for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. The cross was a mystery even after it took place; disciples running too anoint the body. We can have 20/20 hindsight now but by the Old Testament it sounded like the prophets prophesying of it were talking of themselves; In Acts we find an Ethiopian eunuch fresh from the temple wondering if the prophet was talking about himself or another in Acts8:28-34. David also confused the other ages he prophesied in first person Psalms22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. So when God's word said the cross was hid from other ages it was.

[Mechaberean]

still say, if there were 2 different messages, then that would have created confusion, since in several places in the book of Acts, there is Peter and Paul preaching to Jews and Gentiles. If they preached 2 different messages, there would have been mass confusion. The message Peter preached, was the message Jesus left with him after the resurrection. So, either the atonement was once for all and was good enough to cover all the sins of the people who accept Him, or it wasnt good enough for any. There is ONE gospel. Preached first to the Jews, to the Samaritans and then to the Gentiles. The word says to the Jew first and then to the Gentiles. It didnt say preach this message to the Jews and then go preach this other message to the Gentiles.
-------------The Gentiles that are among the Jews when preaching was going on were called Jewish proselytes they were circumcised and had become Jews or couldnt meet where the Jews were it was against the law to keep company with Gentiles.

[blitzkreig]

Kingdom of heaven = Kingdom of GodOne would think.

But the KOG is broader ... has always been. Eternal. All encompassing. Lucifer was a senior official ...

The KOH is what was promised the Jew. A Kingdom on earth.

Here is one for you to keep you awake at night ...

So Jesus spent 3 1/2 years preaching the impending Kingdom (at hand phase) and you and I both know that he has to die to save the world from their sins ... the Cross was God's plan from the beginning ...

So these hand picked apostles who has been supposedly preaching the gospel for all this time ... witness the execution of our Lord ... spend another 40 days post resurrection with Him and His last minute instructions ...

And then ...

Just before he is ascended in the clouds ...

They having had their FINAL briefing ...

What do they ask ... ?

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

They wanted Him to set up an Israel government and kick out the Romans.

What they would have called ... "The Kingdom of Heaven". The one promised to them from ancient prophets in the Old Testament ... to that very day.

It is coming ... we call it the "Millennial Kingdom" in prophecy studies.

:hat

[Mechaberean]

The Kingdom of Heaven is in part now dealing with the physical, and the last foe physical death isn't conquered yet. Physical death has two conquerings; one at the rapture for the saved, The other after the millenium when death(1st) and Hell are cast into the lake of fire which is the second death. Our Kingdom Of God is perfect now;second death won't touch those who are saved. All spiritual foes are conquered for a saved person's soul and spirit. Having our soul circumcised from our flesh by God, Unlike the Jewish church(before our age and after); Things done in the flesh affect the soul for them. In Hebrews 10:12But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;13From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool(Kingdom of Heaven). Now this is in our bible after Ephesians because our bible is a pre-trib. bible God knew the Kingdom of God would be perfected before the Jewish Kingdom of Heaven. Seen in Ephesians1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church.(Kingdom of God)