Pauline Dispensationalism

[BlessedinHim]

Matthew 4:17 of heaven [3772] ouranos
Mark 1:15 of God [2316] theos

hmmm, I think, if we say they are two different places, then that would create confusion, while there are definitely 2 different words being used, as said before, they could have been used synonymously, meaning the same place.

After the great tribulation, arent we reigning with Christ in the milennium? And the bible tells us that we will always be with Christ. So, one could take that where ever Christ is, we will be with Him.

[Mechaberean]

They are not two different places God is God and heaven is a place. God's presence in our hearts is a kingdom He reigns in us through His Spirit its not a place.

[HeIsEnough]

Jesus said the Kingdom of God is within you.

Mechaberean, Blitzkreig et.al....

One should be enough, but I'll give you three to start.

This will not happen in the MK. It was showing what will happen in our age, the age of grace.


Matthew 13

The Parable of the Sower
1That same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the lake. 2Such large crowds gathered around him that he got into a boat and sat in it, while all the people stood on the shore. 3Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9He who has ears, let him hear."

10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?"

11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
" 'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.'[a] 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.


This will not happen in the MK. It was showing what will happen in our age, the age of grace. It is crystal clear that this is happening today.


Matthew 13

The Parable of the Weeds
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.

27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'

28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'

29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "


This will happen right before the MK. It is showing what will happen at the end of the age, and references the second coming. It references more men then Hebrews, that is unless you want to somehow argue against it.


Matthew 13

The Parable of the Net
47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

51"Have you understood all these things?" Jesus asked.
"Yes," they replied.

52He said to them, "Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old."

It's just a no brainer, and I wonder why anyone would think to differ. Perhaps you can tell me why you feel you must differentiate on this matter. Is it because some 'great teacher' has said it is so? And don't say the MK because it is not needed to establish anything concerning the MK.

[Mechaberean]

Its too bad He was talking to the Jewish nation.Like it says Kingdom of Heaven is not for our age.Matthew10:5

[HeIsEnough]

Its too bad He was talking to the Jewish nation.Like it says Kingdom of Heaven is not for our age.Matthew10:5

Thats fine if you desire to believe that. You have proven nothing, and have been shown how they are used interchangeably. His kingdom is presently not of this world, it wasn't then and it still is not. We are in His kingdom spiritually at the present, all those who are in Christ anyway. When He comes, His invisible heavenly kingdom will consume all visible earthly kingdoms, like it relates here:


Revelation 11:15
[ The Seventh Trumpet ] The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

[God's Trombone]

Harley, this is for you, but also for others who like you don't believe the scriptures indicate
that there were distinctive Gospels for Israel and for us in the Body of Christ.

I refer to another thread here at R-R:

http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=10483&page=7

In this thread on OSAS, on which you posted, we can see the tragic result of 2000 years of believers not seeing the difference between Israel and the Church.

When one says: "the preponderance of scripture says we cannot lose our salvation" one is really saying "Paul's letters show us we cannot lose our salvation."

The conflicts about OSAS arise because we have been given wrong information, i.e., we have been taught by the mixing of law and grace that the other scriptures give evidence that we can in fact lose our salvation. The reason these "other scriptures" indicate this is that they are about Israel. The Jewish saints of the Gospel of the circumcision were not sealed as we are, and they had to endure in belief and faith until the return of Christ.

The mixing of these two Gospels by "culprits in pulpits" is responsible for the confusion of so many today and for centuries.

[God's Trombone]

The wrong information has led many to "toss off" the distinctiveness of Paul's Gospel and to the rather glib (IMO) assertion that Paul's and Peter's messages, though addressed to different audiences, was the same.

This is exactly why so many are confused about not just OSAS but many other questions such as water baptism, which church is true, etc.

But the worst "sin" I see with the view you and others insist on is that it makes all the prophecy of Israel's future appear false. It says that "God changed His mind and instead of what the scriptures prophesy about Israel, the church takes Israel's place in a new plan."

This is replacement theology if anything is.

[HeIsEnough]

But the worst "sin" I see with the view you and others insist on is that it makes all the prophecy of Israel's future appear false. It says that "God changed His mind and instead of what the scriptures prophesy about Israel, the church takes Israel's place in a new plan."


This teaching is not needed to prove or otherwise quantify the MK or Israel's current place in God's plan or future.

It is rejected because it has been shown to be false.

What happened to Israel was prophesied to happen. Israels future is also told to us in clear terms.

God neither 'changed His mind' nor decided to make the Church a 'parenthesis' in His plan. It is moving along as He foretold. One only need believe exactly as He says.

[BenOne]

This teaching is not needed to prove or otherwise quantify the MK or Israel's current place in God's plan or future.

It is rejected because it has been shown to be false.

What happened to Israel was prophesied to happen. Israels future is also told to us in clear terms.

God neither 'changed His mind' nor decided to make the Church a 'parenthesis' in His plan. It is moving along as He foretold. One only need believe exactly as He says.

Hiya! I'm back and so are you!

Sort of like Chafer's view that there is a break in the calendar for Israel until the 'fulness of the Gentiles' be come in......an "inter-calation" he calls it.

Good to see you still holding up the truth of the Word.

:hug:thumb

[Mechaberean]

There are two churches anyways heisenough;The Jewish one started in Exodus found in Acts7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us. (I wasn't there nor any other Gentile unless they were circumcised), thats why the Jews are astonished when the Holy Spriit falls on the Gentiles later on in Acts.