Beth O
August 30th, 2007, 05:19 PM
There are other dispensational theologies which are not Paulinist, which do adhere to proper distinctions that the scriptures teach, understand and divide the scriptures properly. With that, I'm outta here...adios.
wait... I agree with you. this article makes sense to me re: dispensations. what do you think? sorry for the length of post. although this entire thread is lengthy!
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/studybible-dispensation.html
WHAT ARE THE DISPENSATIONS?
The Bible does not specifically tell us how many ages there have been since God made man or how many there will be in the future. C.I. Scofield, author of the famous Scofield Bible, and many other well-known dispensational teachers, have taught that there are seven dispensations. Scofield said, “Each of the dispensations may be regarded as a new test of the natural man, and each ends in judgment, marking his utter failure in every dispensation.”
That is one way that the ages of God can be explained and divided; but there are other ways to look at them, and the number seven is not necessary. The exact number of dispensations or ages is not what is important. You could say there are five dispensations, or eight, or ten, depending on how you define an age. The important point is that there HAVE been various periods during which God has worked out His purposes, and during these periods God has related to men in different ways and has required different things of them. To understand and interpret the Bible properly, one must understand this.
THE DISPENSATIONS OF GOD’S WORD
Personally, I believe it is profitable to divide the ages into nine categories as follows:
1. Man Innocent: Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 1-3). This age extended from the creation of Adam to the expulsion from Eden. Adam and Eve were created sinless and innocent and they were given only one commandment, not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. When they sinned, that age of innocence ended. We do not know how long Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden before they sinned, but we do know that they had no children until after the Fall.
2. Man Under Conscience: From Adam’s fall to the Flood (Genesis 4-8). During this period, God left man to his own devices. There was no law, but there were prophets sent by God, such as Abel, Enoch, and Noah. The result was that man corrupted the earth and had to be destroyed in the flood, with only Noah and his family being saved to continue the human race. This period lasted roughly 1,600 years.
3. Man Under Human Government: From after the Flood to the Tower of Babel (Genesis 9-11). After the flood, God gave Noah and his children new commandments. He told them to replenish the earth (Gen. 9:1). He gave them the flesh of animals for food (Gen. 9:3-4). He commanded them to put murderers to death (Gen. 9:5-6). He established his covenant that He would never again destroy the world with water (Gen. 9:8-17). Instead of going to the ends of the earth, though, and replenishing it, the grandsons of Noah united together and attempted to exalt themselves against God at the Tower of Babel. This period lasted roughly 400 years.
4. Man Under Promise: From Abraham to the Giving of the Law (Genesis 12-50). During this period, God was building the nation of Israel in preparation for the giving of the law. He raised up Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob, then the 12 sons of Jacob, and he carried them down into Egypt. This period lasted roughly 430 years.
5. Man Under Law: From Moses to the Coming of Christ (Exodus to the end of the Old Testament). During this period, God put Israel under the Mosaic law to prepare for the coming of Christ. The law does this in two ways: (1) It shows man his sinful condition and his need of salvation. (2) It foreshadows Christ by many types. It is important to understand that men were never saved by keeping the law. Salvation has always been by grace through faith in God’s Word (Romans 4:1-8). The law was given to reveal sin not to save men from sin. This period lasted roughly 1,500 years.
6. Man Under Grace: From Christ to the end of the Church Age (Acts to Jude). The church age actually began during the earthly ministry of Christ; at least the foundation was being laid during those years; but for the purposes of this study, we can simplify things and begin it with the book of Acts. During this period, God is calling out a special body of people from among all nations of the earth. So far this period has lasted almost 2,000 years.
7. Man Under God’s Judgment: The Great Tribulation (Revelation 3-18). During this period, God will prepare Israel and the world for the return of Christ. (1) Through judgments upon sinful men. (2) Through judgments upon Israel which will cause her finally to awaken from her spiritual blindness and to turn to Christ. This period will last seven years.
8. Man Under the Personal Reign of Christ: The Millennium (Revelation 19-20). The second coming and millennial reign of Christ (Rev. 19-20). During this period, God will establish a kingdom on earth and the nations will be ruled with a rod of iron. This period will last 1,000 years.
9. Man in the New Heaven and New Earth (Rev. 21-22). From this point on, God will continue to work out His plans from age to age throughout eternity, but the Bible does not reveal any further details.
THE BENEFIT OF DISPENSATIONALISM
1. Dispensational theology helps us to study the Bible within its proper context.
For example, Ezekiel 18:21-24 says men are judged by whether or not they keep the law. Many have erred by thinking that this is teaching how to be saved. Those who believe you can lose your salvation use verses like these to prove their doctrine. But the Bible student must interpret every passage in its context, and the context here is the Mosaic law. Thus, we know from the New Testament that it was not written to show men how to be saved. It was written to show men their unsaved condition so that they might flee to Christ for salvation.
Another example is God’s judgment on Cain in Genesis 4:9-12. God did not put him to death for murdering his brother. Does this contradict what God later said to Noah in Genesis 9:6? No, it doesn’t because man was living during a different age then. God’s dealings with men were different and what he required of men was different.
Another example is Matthew 10:5-15. Here Christ sends out His disciples to preach, but note the following restrictions: (1) They were to preach only to Jews (v. 6). (2) They were to preach that the kingdom of heaven is at hand (v. 7). (3) They were to do miracles (v. 8). (4) They were not to carry any money or extra clothes (v. 9-10). (5) They were to carry no weapons (a staff). This is directly contradictory to the commands given later in the New Testament. Later Christ Himself commanded His disciples to preach to all men (Matt. 28:18-20), to preach the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection rather than the kingdom of heaven is at hand (Mark 16:15), to carry both money and a sword (Lk. 22:35-36), and there is no further command in the New Testament to do miracles. What is the difference between these accounts? The difference is that they are spoken under different dispensations. In Matthew 10, Christ is sending His disciples out to proclaim to Israel that their Messiah and King was present. That is the meaning of “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” It was at hand because the King was standing right there! Thus the messengers were to go only to Israel, were to do miracles to demonstrate that the Messiah had come as foretold in the prophets, were not to provide anything for themselves because it was just a short period of time under the direct authority of the Messiah. Later, after Israel had rejected Christ, He began to prepare for the church age and the preaching of the gospel to the ends of the earth. The program of God changed and so did the methods and requirements.
Another example is Revelation 13:10. This is written in the context of the reign of the Antichrist (see verses 1-8). When verse 10 says, “He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity; he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword,” it is referring to the commands of the Antichrist to force all people to worship him (v. 8). It is not referring to using the sword at any time and in any age. Jesus Himself at one point instructed His disciples to get a sword (Lk. 22:36). What Revelation 13:10 is warning about is joining hands with the Antichrist in his war against all of those who refuse to bow to him.
2. Dispensationalism makes a clear distinction between Israel and the Church.
1 Corinthians 10:32 plainly states that there are three categories of men in the world today: “Give none offence, neither to the JEWS, nor to the GENTILES, nor to the CHURCH of God.” Obviously, then, Israel is not the same as the church.
This is a very, very important matter for the Bible student to understand. Some of the most common errors in theology have come about through confusing the church with Israel.
EXAMPLES
This is one of the errors of ROMAN CATHOLICISM. Rome claims to be the new Israel and has adopted many things from the Old Testament dispensation, such as priests, temples, candles, incense, sprinkling of water, and many other things. This is one reason why Rome attempted to take over the holy land during the crusades of the Middle Ages. It is also why Rome has opposed Israel’s desire to control Jerusalem.
This is also one of the errors of PROTESTANTISM. By this, I am referring especially to Anglican, Presbyterian, Methodist, Reformed, and Lutheran denominations. When the Protestant denominations left Rome in the 1500s and 1600s, they did not leave behind all of Rome’s errors. One of the errors they brought with them pertains to ecclesiology and the interpretation of prophecy. They teach that Israel was permanently rejected by God and replaced with the church, that the church is the continuation of Israel. They do not believe that the Old Testament promises and prophecies pertaining to Israel will be literally fulfilled. They, too, in one degree or another have adopted certain rituals from the Old Testament dispensation, such as priests, elaborate ceremonies or “liturgy,” infant baptism (which they claim is the spiritualizing of infant circumcision), candles, incense, etc.
Most of the CULTS also claim to be a continuation of Israel in one form or the other. For example, the Worldwide Church of God, founded by Herbert W. Armstrong, claimed that 10 of the tribes of Israel had been lost and had re-surfaced today in England and America and had been restored in his cult. This is called British-Israelism, and other false groups teach a form of it.
It is very important to understand the error of this. God’s promises to Israel have not failed. Israel sinned and has been judged just as God forewarned back in Deuteronomy 28:15-68, but God has promised to restore Israel. Her covenants with God (other than the Mosaic covenant) are unconditional, eternal, and unchangeable.
For example, consider the Davidic Covenant in 2 Samuel 7. This is an extension of the covenant God made with Abraham. In His covenant with David, God (1) reaffirmed the unconditional Abrahamic covenant through David’s family (2 Sa. 7:10); (2) promised that the throne of David would be established forever through David’s seed (2 Sa. 7:13); (3) promised chastisement for sin, but never annulment of the promise (2 Sa. 7:14-15); (4) established David’s house and kingdom forever (2 Sa. 7:16). All of this is fulfilled through Jesus Christ, David’s Son, who has inherited the throne of David (Mt. 1:1) and who will establish the Davidic kingdom at His return from Heaven (Is. 9:6-7).
The New Testament tells us the same thing. In Romans 11:25-29, for example, we are plainly told that God has set aside Israel temporarily at this time, but that He will yet restore them and fulfill His promises to them.
This means that all of God’s promises to Israel in the Old Testament will be literally fulfilled.
1. Israel will be restored to the land (Zech. 10:6-12)
2. Israel will be brought through severe judgment and one third will call upon God’s name (Zech. 13:8-9)
3. Israel will be redeemed (Zech. 12:10 - 13:1)
4. Messiah will return and defeat Israel’s enemies and rule from Jerusalem (Zech. 14:1-21)
It is crucial, then, to interpret all of Bible prophecy literally and to understand that there is a difference between Israel and the church.
CONTRAST COVENANT OR REFORMED THEOLOGY
The opposite of Dispensational Theology is Covenant Theology. This is the standard Presbyterian theology. It is also called Reformed and Federal Theology. It can be traced back to the time of the Heidelberg Catechism of 1584 and was encapsulated within the Westminster Confession one hundred years later. As would be expected, there is considerable variety within Covenant Theology traditions, but the following are some of the standard characteristics:
1. Covenant Theology says that there were only two covenants. Traditional Covenant Theology says there was a covenant of works before the Fall and a covenant of grace since the Fall, a covenant of works with Adam and a covenant of grace with Christ. The Westminster Confession stated, “The first covenant made with man was a covenant of works, wherein life was promised to Adam; and in him to his posterity, upon condition of perfect and personal obedience. Man, by his fall, having made himself incapable of life by that covenant, the Lord was pleased to make a second, commonly called the covenant of grace; wherein He freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ.” Another variety of covenant theology, called New Covenant Theology, says that the two covenants are the old covenant of law with Israel and the new covenant of grace with the church.
2. Covenant Theology claims that the Old Testament prophecies pertaining to Israel have already been fulfilled spiritually or allegorically or symbolically in the church. Covenant theologians believe that Israel has been permanently rejected.
3. Covenant Theology says there has been only one group of redeemed people: Israel in the Old Testament times and now the church, which supposedly has replaced Israel.
4. Covenant Theology has traditionally been accompanied by the practice of infant baptism, which is seen as the entrance into God’s new covenant. They argue that since the old covenant had the rite of circumcision for babies, the new covenant must have the rite of baby baptism.
THE DANGERS OF DISPENSATIONALISM
1. Thinking that the Bible student must accept one certain form of dispensational teaching.
While it is obvious that there are different dispensations in the Bible, the Bible student is not forced to accept the traditional view of dispensationalism as taught by any certain man or group of men. In fact, no two dispensational teachers have agreed in every point. Every systematic theology and every teaching of man must be carefully tested by the Bible itself (Acts 17:11; 1 Cor. 14:29; 1 Thess. 5:21).
Following are some of the varieties of dispensational theology that currently exist. (Some material in the following three points is copied, but I have lost the source and regretfully cannot give credit.)
Traditional Dispensationalism (C.I. Scofield, Clarence Larkin, Chafer). Some of the points of this theology beyond the things we have already noted are as follows: (1) Israel is on the earth, the church is in heaven and the two never meet even in eternity. (2) Some of the classical dispensationalists taught that there are two ways of salvation: works in the O.T. and faith in the N.T. Chafer taught that there are two new covenants, one with Israel and one with the church.
Modified Dispensationalism (Charles Ryrie, John Walvoord, Dwight Pentecost, Dallas Seminary). Israel and the church will be together after the millennium; there is only one way to salvation in both testaments (faith); there is only one new covenant that is shared by both Israel and the church.
Further Modified Dispensationalism (Robert Saucy, Craig Blaising, Darrell Bock). In recent years, some men have made even more modifications of the dispensational view. They state the following: (1) The church is not a parenthesis but the first step towards establishing the kingdom of God. (2) God does not have two purposes (i.e. Israel and the church); there is only one purpose, but both of them share in it. (3) There is no distinction between Israel and the church in the future state. (4) The church will reign (with Jews) in glorified bodies on earth during the millennium. But, they still insist that OT prophecies regarding Israel will be fulfilled in the millennium by ethnic Jews. They do not see the church as the new Israel or believe that Old Testament prophecies are fulfilled in the church.
Though I have not personally studied the writings of all of these men, I have come to some of the same conclusions in my own study of the Bible. For example, I am convinced that the way of salvation was the same in principle in the Old Testament as it is today, and that was by faith through God’s grace based on the shed blood of Christ (Romans 4). Further, it appears to me that Ephesians 2:18-22 tells us that the household of God, that great temple that God is building, ultimately includes both Israel and church age saints. While it appears to me that there will be a closer association between these two groups in eternity than that which is taught in traditional dispensational theology, we are also not told exactly how they will be associated.
It appears to me that no one system of dispensational theology can satisfy everything the Bible teaches about Israel, the church, and future events. One reason is that God does not tell us everything. Not every question will be answered in this present time. Further, I do not agree with the doctrine of the church as taught by most of the aforementioned men. (I say most and not all only because I am not familiar with every one of them.) They hold to a Protestant view of a universal church that began at Pentecost, and I do not agree with that. I do not believe it is scripturally correct to refer to the church in a universal sense. There is no “church in America” or “church in Europe.” There are churches, plural, in these localities, but it is unscriptural to refer to the church, singular, in this sense.
2. Thinking that these dispensational periods are sealed off one from another.
In fact, the dealings of God with man are very similar in all ages and dispensations and many general principles overlap all dispensations.
EXAMPLES
Though one age is called the dispensation of human government, this does not mean that human government ceased after that.
Though one of the ages is called the age of law, this does not mean that there is no law now since the coming of Christ.
Though the church age is commonly called the “age of grace,” that does not mean that there was no grace before the church. The grace of God has been available to men of all ages since the Fall. Noah found grace (Gen. 6:8). Israel found grace in the wilderness (Jer. 31:2).
3. Making unnecessary and improper dispensations and making too sharp a division between them.
This is called “ultra-dispensationalism” or “hyper-dispensationalism” and is characterized by making a sharp division between the ministry of Christ and that of the Apostles, and of further dividing Paul’s teaching from that of Peter and the other apostles. Some of the well-known teachers of ultra- or hyper-dispensationalism are E.W. Bullinger, Cornelius Stam, J.C. O’Hair, Charles Welch, Otis Sellers, A.E. Knoch, and Charles Baker. There are many varieties of ultra-dispensationalism, but the following are some of the characteristics:
(1) The four Gospels are entirely Jewish and contain no direct teaching for the churches. Yet, the writer of Hebrews said that the same gospel of salvation that was preached by the apostles was preached by Christ (Heb. 2:3-4). Though we know that Christ presented Himself to the Jewish nation and we do understand that there are differences between the gospels and the epistles, yet in Hebrews 2 we do not see a sharp delineation between the gospel preached by Christ and that preached by the apostles who followed. In fact, the Gospel of John presents exactly the same gospel as that preached by Paul. Further, 1 Tim. 6:3 shows that Christ spoke directly to the church age.
(2) The book of Acts is also largely Jewish. Hyper-dispensationalists commonly believe that after Christ was rejected by Israel in the Gospels, that they were given a second chance to receive the kingdom in the first part of the book of Acts. Thus, they teach that there are two different churches viewed in the book of Acts, and the true Pauline church only started after Acts 9, 13, or 28. Thus, the church mentioned in the first part of Acts allegedly refers to a different church than that of Paul’s prison epistles. The earlier “church” in Acts is simply an aspect of the kingdom preached in the Gospels. Most of the book of Acts is therefore discounted as a guideline for the churches today. Yet, at the very end of the book of Acts we still find Paul preaching about the kingdom (Acts 28:23). In fact, he was still preaching about it in his epistles! (2 Thess. 1:5; 2 Tim. 4:1). While we can see an obvious transition in the book of Acts, this does not mean that there are different gospels and different churches in various parts of Acts.
(3) The mysteries given to Paul contained a different revelation from that given to Peter and the other Apostles, and only Paul’s writings are for the church today. The other epistles, such as Hebrew, James, 1 and 2 Peter, and the epistles of John are not for us today. Yet, Paul himself said that the church is built upon the “apostles” plural and not merely upon himself (Eph. 2:20). And Peter also referred to the writings of Paul and made no distinction between Paul’s teaching and the teaching of the other apostles (2 Pet. 3:1-2, 15-16). Peter said Paul wrote to the same people and preached the same message.
(4) The gospel preached by Peter in the early part of the book of Acts is different from the gospel preached by Paul. Yet, there is actually no difference between the gospel preached by Peter and that which Paul preached. Peter preached salvation through the blood of Christ (1 Pet. 1:2), salvation by God’s free mercy (1 Peter 1:3), the new birth (1 Peter 1:3), eternal security because of the resurrection of Christ (1 Pet. 1:3-4). Further, Acts 15 plainly states that all of the apostles, including Peter and Paul, agreed on the gospel. And Paul states in Galatians 1, that anyone who preached a different gospel was cursed. If Peter were truly preaching a different gospel in those days, he would have fallen under this curse.
(5) Baptism and the Lord’s Supper were given to Paul before he received the church age mysteries; thus they are not for the churches today. Dispensationalists differ about this point. Some accept both baptism and the Lord’s Supper; some reject water baptism and the Lord’s Supper altogether; while others reject only baptism and keep the Lord’s Supper.
Harry A. Ironside wrote a helpful little booklet about this problem called “Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: Ultra-Dispensationalism Examined in the Light of Holy Scripture.” He deals largely with the error of Bullingerism. This is available on the Internet at http://www.brethrenonline.org/books/ultrad.htm.
A more recent form of hyper-dispensationalism is presented in One Book Rightly Divided: The Key to Understanding the Bible by Dr. Douglas Stauffer (2000, McCowen Mills Publishers). Stauffer’s teaching is largely the same as that which has been promoted by Dr. Peter Ruckman for many years, though Stauffer gives Ruckman no credit. He does mention that he received “the principles of right division” from Dave Reese. I sat under Reese’s hyper-dispensational teaching in a course on prophecy at Tennessee Temple Bible School in the mid-1970s. It was a blessing when Reese left part way through the course, and we had the joy of finishing the rest of the course under the sound and profitable teaching of Dr. Bruce Lackey. Stauffer’s book comes with recommendations from some well-known independent Baptist preachers, including Evangelist Dennis Corle of Revival Fires, J. Wendell Runion of International Baptist Outreach Missions, and Jerry Rockwell of Sword of the Lord. In his glowing Foreword to Stauffer’s book (which he calls a “spiritual masterpiece”), William Grady says that “this book will undoubtedly create shock waves within certain ‘camps’ of fundamentalism...” I doubt that the book will create shock waves within any camps, but it probably will create shock waves in some individual lives and churches.
While there are many good things in Stauffer’s book (i.e., he has a very excellent section on repentance, defining it properly as “a change of mind and heart attitude which leads to a change of actions” and warning that “too many sinners bow their heads and say the ‘sinner’s prayer’ without any inward conviction or belief on the Lord Jesus Christ”), and while he accepts both baptism and the Lord’s Supper as church ordinances, there can be no doubt that he is teaching a form of hyper-dispensationalism. Stauffer’s hyper-dispensationalism is milder than some of the other approaches, but Dr. Stauffer’s teaching will nonetheless produce confusion and division within churches. According to Stauffer, Paul is THE spokesman for the church age (p. 17); the general epistles of Hebrews to Revelation, while containing some church age applications, are actually written for Great Tribulation saints (pp. 20, 27); salvation is obtained by works during the Tribulation (p. 23); Hebrews and James do not teach eternal security (pp. 23, 29); Peter did not preach the gospel of the grace of God (p. 26); the seven churches of Revelation 1-3 are not the body of Christ (p. 29); the epistle of first John teaches that salvation is through works (p. 56); the book of Acts was not given “to show how to establish the local church or its functions” (p. 72), Abraham had to keep his salvation through works (p. 175).
Stauffer even has a chapter warning about “hyper-dispensationalism”! In this, he conveniently redefines hyper-dispensationalism to mean something other than what he himself teaches. In fact, he sets up a strawman form of hyper-dispensationalism that doesn’t actually exist, or if it does exist, is very rare. He claims, for example, that a real hyper-dispensationalist teaches that the law is inapplicable today, but in reality, hyper-dispensationalists commonly teach that the law has applications for the church. He claims that hyper-dispensationalists exclude some portions of the Bible from study and application, but hyper-dispensationalists typically claim that all portions of the Bible have application to church age saints and are valuable for study. Stauffer defines hyper-dispensationalism as “any intentional false division of the Bible” (his emphasis) (p. 149). Such a definition would be impossible to employ for the simple fact that we cannot look into the heart of a man and see what his motives are. In fact, hyper-dispensationalism is “any false division of the Bible” period, regardless of the motive of the one doing the teaching. A hyper-dispensationalist can be sincere or insincere. That is beside the point. The whole issue is whether he creates divisions in the Scriptures that should not be created. Stauffer’s book does precisely this.
For more about the way of salvation in other dispensations, see “Salvation Is the Same in the Old Testament and the New Testament” by Bruce Lackey and “Salvation in the O.T. and the N.T. Follow-up.” These are available at the Bible version section of the End Times Apostasy Database at the Way of Life web site. These articles are also available in the Fundamental Baptist CD-ROM Library.
4. Not recognizing that there are transitional periods between dispensations.
One problem that can arise when looking at the Bible dispensationally is to fail to recognize transitional periods. For example, John the Baptist is a transitional figure. He is the last of the Old Testament prophets to Israel, but he is also the forerunner of Christ, Who is the founder of the church. Actually, the four Gospels themselves are transitional books. They are for Israel and for the church, as well. In Matthew, for example, Christ is presented as the king of Israel and is rejected by the nation Israel and then He begins to focus His attention on building the church (Matt. 16:18). Yet, there is not a sharp and immediate transition; it is gradual. The book of Acts is also a transitional book, and not everything in the book of Acts is the norm for churches today. Pentecost, for example, was unique. The gift of tongues was a witness to Israel (1 Cor. 14:21-22) and is no longer relevant. The baptism of the Holy Spirit was also unique for that initiation period of the church. None of the epistles instruct believers to see a baptism of the Holy Spirit; they refer, rather, to the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the past tense (i.e., 1 Cor. 12:13).
5. Neglecting some parts of the Bible, thinking that they are not important for us today.
Some neglect the four Gospels or the book of Acts or the book of Revelation, but this is wrong. While not every part of the Bible is written TO us, every part of the Bible is written FOR us and has important lessons for Christians today. See 1 Cor. 10:6,11; Rom. 15:4.
CONCLUSION: THE LIE ABOUT DISPENSATIONALISM
Some who despise dispensationalism have claimed that it was not taught until the 1800s. Some claim it was started by John Darby, founder of the Plymouth Brethren movement. While it might be true that a certain form of dispensationalism, such as Darby dispensationalism or Scofield dispensationalism, might not have been taught until more recent times, it is plain that a belief in dispensations goes all of the way back to the Apostles.
1. We have seen that the New Testament teaches that there are dispensations during which God has worked out His great purposes. These are also called ages, times, and days. In this sense, dispensationalism is 2,000 years old!
2. Even the early Christians after the apostles taught a form of dispensationalism. Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-165) believed in four phases of history in God’s plan: From Adam to Abraham, from Abraham to Moses, from Moses to Christ, and from Christ to the eternal state. Irenaeus (A.D. 120-202) taught something similar, dividing the dispensations into (1) the creation to the flood, (2) the flood to the law, (3) the law to the gospel, (4) the gospel to the eternal state. Larry Crutchfield, in “Ages and Dispensations of the Ante-Nicene Fathers,” observes that some of the early church leaders “came very close to making nearly the same divisions modern dispensationalists do.”
DJHere
August 30th, 2007, 05:22 PM
Here it is one more time the physical church is running(people of God according to the flesh=Jews) until 2nd Corinthians, and so yes you can quote stuff out of there all you want there are two churches until a diminishing happpened and their church was on hold at 2Corinthians5:16
God's word does not teach there were two churches for how does God's word teach a man is baptised into the body of Christ, God's church? One way through the Spirit:
13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. (1 Cor. 12)
Who is given the Spirit to drink? Only those who place their belief/faith in Jesus as the scriptures say:
38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7)
When did the Holy Spirit come to indwell believers as this scriture teaches? The day of Penetcost! Then there has always been one church, enacted the day of Penetcost when the Holy Spirit came.
Who does 1 Cor. 12 teach the body of Christ i.e. the church is made up of? All those, both Jew and Gentile, who have been baptised by the Spirit.
Who does God's word teach receives the Spirit? Only those how have placed their belief/faith in Jesus:
13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory. (Eph. 1:13-14)
3So also, when we were children, we were in slavery under the basic principles of the world. 4But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." (Gal. 4)
23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us. (1 John 3)
God's word is clear:
if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. (Romans 8)
What did Paul state about the message he preached in 1 Cor. 15:
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
I noted you forgot to mention what verse 11 states why it that?
Who is the they verse 11 is referencing? The other who were mentioned.
Did Peter and Paul preach the same message? According to what is recorded in Acts 2:14-41; Acts 13:26-41 and Acts 10:34-43 YES! Lets compare Peters Acts 2 message with Pauls Acts 13 one.
Acts 2 records:
14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.
Acts 13 records:
26"Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.
Both address their messages to two group of people Jews and non Jews.
Peter Acts 2:
22"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.
Paul Acts 13:
27The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. 28Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb.
Are these both preaching the same message? YES! Both note the Jews handed Jesus over to be killed according to God's set plan. Peter states He was handed over by God's set purpose while Paul notes what happened to Jesus was a fulfillment of what was written about Him. Same message expressed differently because it was preached by two men with different personalities.
Peter Acts 2:
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him. 25David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
26Therefore my heart is glad and my tongue rejoices;
my body also will live in hope,
27because you will not abandon me to the grave,
nor will you let your Holy One see decay.
28You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will fill me with joy in your presence.'
Peter Acts 10:
37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
39"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.
Paul Acts 13:
30But God raised him from the dead, 31and for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people.
32"We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
" 'You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.' 34The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
" 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.' 35So it is stated elsewhere:
" 'You will not let your Holy One see decay.'
Both preach Jesus was raised from the dead and His body did not see decay. Both note there were witnesses who saw Jesus after He rose from the dead.
Peter Acts 2:
29"Brothers, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31Seeing what was ahead, he spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to the grave, nor did his body see decay. 32God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of the fact.
33Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. 34For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '
Paul Acts 13:
"For when David had served God's purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his fathers and his body decayed. 37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.
Both quote from the scriptures and attest to the fact the scriptures noted could not have been speaking about David.
Peter Acts 2:
Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."
Peter Acts 10:
42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
Paul Acts 13:
38"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.
How to both teach sins are forgiven? Through Jesus!
What did Paul state in 1 Cor. 15:
11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
Eph. 2 is clear when it teaches:
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
There has always been one church made up of both Jew and Gentile who become part of that church one way by placing their belief/faith in Jesus.
vBulletin® v3.7.3, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.