Pauline Dispensationalism

[DJHere]

True we have somethings in common with the Jewish church I know it too be true. But we receieve the Spirit by belief and this is not Acts2:38
What do you mean it is not in Acts 2? Acts 2 states:

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

[DJHere]

As for this statement:
and we are sealed when they have mere remission of sins of the past

When does God's word teach a person is sealed? When they place their belief in Jesus:

13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory. (Eph. 1)

Exactly as Jesus said:

38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7)

Yet you say:


but how they got the Spirit which was water and if He stayed with them which is sealed is the main points

Who seals man with the Holy Spirit? God! Who then is the only one who can remove that seal? God! Where do you see God or His word saying or teaching God removes His seal? You don't!

Eph. 1 teaches:

Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.

What does indwelling of the Holy Spirit do? grarantees our inheritance!

What did Jesus state:

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

2 Cor. 1 teaches:

18But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not "Yes" and "No." 19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by me and Silas and Timothy, was not "Yes" and "No," but in him it has always been "Yes." 20For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Who annointed us with the Spirit? God!

What does indwelling of the Holy Spirit show? We belong to God!

What does it do? Guraantees what is to come.

If something is guaranteed you cannot lose it can you? What did Jesus say: 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, We cannot loose our salvation anymore than we can removed God's seal guaranteeing it.

[Deborah 55]

:yeah

[Mechaberean]

What do you mean it is not in Acts 2? Acts 2 states:

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized(this isnt a Spirit baptism its water if they repented and were water baptised then Spirit baptism), every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

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As for this statement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechaberean
and we are sealed when they have mere remission of sins of the past

When does (not until 2nd Corinthians is it first mentioned for other' s than apostles that walked with Jesus)

13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory. (Eph. 1)(yep ephesians is written not to Israel,nor should we cram God's timelines together like that)
Exactly as Jesus said:

38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7)(the above refrence is to future shall flow up an ongoing thing til it does)
Yet you say:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechaberean
but how they got the Spirit which was water and if He stayed with them which is sealed is the main points

Who seals man with the Holy Spirit? God! Who then is the only one who can remove that seal? God! Where do you see God or His word saying or teaching God removes His seal? You don't!(God does when He wants and when He doesnt like in the Old Testament He doesnt; left King Saul,Samson,and almost David)

Eph. 1 teaches:

Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.(yep written to the Gentiles no Jew addressed unless he left the synagogue and the nation))

What does indwelling of the Holy Spirit do? grarantees our inheritance!(read the Old Testament it not a seal when the Spirit is present dude)

What did Jesus state:

35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

2 Cor. 1 teaches:

18But as surely as God is faithful, our message to you is not "Yes" and "No." 19For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by me and Silas and Timothy, was not "Yes" and "No," but in him it has always been "Yes." 20For no matter how many promises God has made, they are "Yes" in Christ. And so through him the "Amen" is spoken by us to the glory of God. 21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

Who annointed us with the Spirit? God!

What does indwelling of the Holy Spirit show? We belong to God!

What does it do? Guraantees what is to come.

If something is guaranteed you cannot lose it can you? What did Jesus say: 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, We cannot loose our salvation anymore than we can removed God's seal guaranteeing it.

[Mechaberean]

We shouldnt cram all the bible together I guess would be a great reply different timelines/ages etc.. other ages didnt know the cross the bible says well the Jewish nation and apostles in the gospels didnt know it ,it's another age.1Cor.2:8 Which none of the princes(Jews and all none mean none) of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

[BlessedinHim]

I have to speak up for myself here. I didnt post this to start anything or to make some statement. I posted this as a study to see if what this says is true. It broke off on a tangent when it was brought up that someone thought that there were two different gospels. I went through the book of acts chapter by chapter. there is only one gospel. Before the gospel, was the law. the law is what makes a Jew a Jew. When you accept the gift that Jesus gave from the cross, you are no longer Jew or Gentile. the Apostles believed Jesus and when Jesus was crucified, they believed in the Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, thereby, they were no longer under the law, but under grace. It was shown in the book of Acts where Peter and Paul both preached at a few places at the same time in agreement with what was being preached. It was shown that Peter and Paul both did water baptism.

[DJHere]

We shouldnt cram all the bible together I guess would be a great reply different timelines/ages etc.. other ages didnt know the cross the bible says well the Jewish nation and apostles in the gospels didnt know it ,it's another age.
The message's Peter preached recorded in Acts take place after the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost, therefore they are part of the church age. Secondly, Jesus lived under the law while He walked this earth but you find Him teaching i.e speaking about the church in Matt. 16:18; 18:17; John 10:16 and 14:20.

As for the apostles not knowing the gospel? What does Acts 5 record:

17Then the high priest and all his associates, who were members of the party of the Sadducees, were filled with jealousy. 18They arrested the apostles and put them in the public jail. 19But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the doors of the jail and brought them out. 20"Go, stand in the temple courts," he said, "and tell the people the full message of this new life."

What does Luke 24 record:

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.

This is the gospel message in a nutshell. So what do you mean they did not know the gospel message? Acts 4 clearly records:

10then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11He is
" 'the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone. 12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."


What does Acts 10 record:

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
14"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon's house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Simon, three men are looking for you. 20So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them."

21Peter went down and said to the men, "I'm the one you're looking for. Why have you come?"

22The men replied, "We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to have you come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say." 23Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.


The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. 24The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. "Stand up," he said, "I am only a man myself."
27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. 29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?"

30Cornelius answered: "Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31and said, 'Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.' 33So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us."

34Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. 36You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Clearly showing Peter understood and preached the gospel.

What does this passage teach us? That Peter and the others with him needed to be taught by God that the gospel message included the Gentiles who would be heirs with them. What did Jesus tell the disciples right before He died:

12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. (John 16)

What did He tell them right before He was taken up to heaven:

8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1)

Acts 10 and 11 show they needed the Holy Spirit to lead them to the truth that the gospel was open to all men and that the Gentiles would be heirs with Israel. What is recorded in Eph. 3:1-6 shows it was the Spirit, not Paul who taught them this:

1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—
2Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


If you still doubt this I suggest you note what Peter wrote in 1 Peter 2.

4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For in Scripture it says:
"See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame." 7Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
"The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone, 8and,
"A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy. (1 Peter 2)

What did Paul write:

30What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the "stumbling stone." 33As it is written:
"See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame." (Romans 9)

Peter and Paul taught the same gospel message a fact Paul noted when he wrote:

3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born........................ 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

[Mechaberean]

They focused on the death and murder was their focus; Acts2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Who was this special message of murder addressed to? in fact who is Acts 1-7 chapters addressed to? people that aren't saved yet but can still call them brethren because they are Jewish brethren.And like I showed you Acts 2:38 repentance and water and then receive the Holy Ghost after these things.38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Its all layed out, and I'm on vacation so its all yours. This is an awesome post the truth really woke me up, when I read and understood English words here, and that God isn't sloppy if its a different word it's different, He knows what He is up too.(remission etc...)

[DJHere]

As for this:

1Cor.2:8 Which none of the princes(Jews and all none mean none) of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Let's look at that verse in the context it was written:

6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"— 10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.

Who does the rulers of this age refer to? Pilate, Herod, the high priest all of who had a part in Jesus' crucifixion. It is not referring to the apostles who had placed their belief/faith in Jesus.

God's word records the disciples did not understand Jesus had to die and rise again until after Jesus rose from the dead, but that they had placed their belief/faith in Him before He died for John 13 records:

1It was just before the Passover Feast. Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love.
2The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus. 3Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4so he got up from the meal, took off his outer clothing, and wrapped a towel around his waist. 5After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples' feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him.

6He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, "Lord, are you going to wash my feet?"

7Jesus replied, "You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand."

8"No," said Peter, "you shall never wash my feet."
Jesus answered, "Unless I wash you, you have no part with me."

9"Then, Lord," Simon Peter replied, "not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!"

10Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

The eleven were clean because they had placed their faith in Jesus. Judas was not. He walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus, and was taught by Jesus, but he never placed his faith in Jesus as Jesus' statment shows as did his actions (see John 12:4-6).

Mark 9 records:

30They left that place and passed through Galilee. Jesus did not want anyone to know where they were, 31because he was teaching his disciples. He said to them, "The Son of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men. They will kill him, and after three days he will rise." 32But they did not understand what he meant and were afraid to ask him about it.

John 20 records:

3So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9(They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)

Luke 24 records:

38He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? 39Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."

40When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. 41And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence.

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.

These scriptures clearly teach Jesus opened their eyes to understand all the scriptures stated about Him after He rose from the dead and before He was taken back up into heaven. Therefore, they knew and taught the full gospel message right from the start as what is recorded in Acts 5 clearly shows. What they did not understand, and what God, through the work of His Spirit lead them to understand, is that the Gentiles would be heirs together with them.

Paul wrote:

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

This clearly states that the mystery that the Gentiles would be heirs together with Israel was made known to the other apostles by the Holy Spirit. When was it made known? According to what is written in Acts 10 and 11 it appears during Peters vision and the subsequent evidents that took place with Cornelius.

[DJHere]

They focused on the death and murder was their focus; Acts2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

And what did Paul preach:

26"Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 27The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. 28Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30But God raised him from the dead, 31and for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people. (Acts 13)

So your point would be?


Who was this special message of murder addressed to? in fact who is Acts 1-7 chapters addressed to? people that aren't saved yet but can still call them brethren because they are Jewish brethren.

Was the message of Acts 2 delivered only to Jewish people? NO!

"Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem

Neither was Paul's recorded in Acts 13 yet both note it was the Jewish people who demanded Jesus be killed. So I ask you again what exactly is your point? Does what is recorded in Acts 2:14-41; Acts 10:34-43 and Acts 13:23-41 show Paul and Peter taught the same gospel message? YES!




And like I showed you Acts 2:38 repentance and water and then receive the Holy Ghost after these things.38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. Its all layed out, and I'm on vacation so its all yours.

You keep leaving out key verses for what does verse 39 state:

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

The promise is for who? ALL WHO ARE FAR OFF--ALL WHOM THE LORD OUR GOD WILL CALL!