Pauline Dispensationalism

[Beth O]

I have to speak up for myself here. I didnt post this to start anything or to make some statement. I posted this as a study to see if what this says is true. It broke off on a tangent when it was brought up that someone thought that there were two different gospels. I went through the book of acts chapter by chapter. there is only one gospel. Before the gospel, was the law. the law is what makes a Jew a Jew. When you accept the gift that Jesus gave from the cross, you are no longer Jew or Gentile. the Apostles believed Jesus and when Jesus was crucified, they believed in the Death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, thereby, they were no longer under the law, but under grace. It was shown in the book of Acts where Peter and Paul both preached at a few places at the same time in agreement with what was being preached. It was shown that Peter and Paul both did water baptism.

:thumb :agree I can see that you started this thread to learn about dispensations. I had already started studying dispensations when this thread started and it has taken some time to balance all of the different views. I finally found the article that I posted earlier and found it well balanced and a view I can agree with. Sometimes doctrines can be taken to the extreme and that just lends itself to mass confusion.

[Beth O]

Shalom Beth. Great article. :thumb

It was very good. I read the whole thing and completely agree with all its points. That may be a first for me. :lol2 Though the Reformed view was not as complete as it could have been, with its staunch Calvinist beliefs.


Like the writer, I too have come to conclude the same distinctions as he does. I also see myself as a 'further modified', and believe it is completely supported in the scriptures. There is strong biblical support of a 'complete whole' for all the 'household' of God in the future. Maybe that can be a thread of its own, though I do believe it has been referred to as 'Progressive' in other quarters...

We seem to be on the same page regarding this topic. I'm glad you liked the article. I guess I must be a 'further modified' also. I would be very interested in a thread on a 'complete whole' for all the 'household' of God.

Peace to you as well brother :wave

[Topped 3]

And what did Paul preach:

26"Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 27The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. 28Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30But God raised him from the dead, 31and for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people. (Acts 13)

So your point would be?



Was the message of Acts 2 delivered only to Jewish people? NO!

"Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem

Neither was Paul's recorded in Acts 13 yet both note it was the Jewish people who demanded Jesus be killed. So I ask you again what exactly is your point? Does what is recorded in Acts 2:14-41; Acts 10:34-43 and Acts 13:23-41 show Paul and Peter taught the same gospel message? YES!





You keep leaving out key verses for what does verse 39 state:

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

The promise is for who? ALL WHO ARE FAR OFF--ALL WHOM THE LORD OUR GOD WILL CALL!
If Acts II Salvation is the same as ours then why does Ananias and his wife Sapphira fall down and give up the Ghost(Holy Ghost)after Lying to Peter AND the Holy Ghost about how much of THEIR money they gave the Church(they had all things common-This is how they were living then-in fear -like in a real Kingdom-afraid of the wrath of the King).This is not Pauline Grace of God doctrine-you are jumping around the NT using and appropriating passages to fit your theology-listen to mechabearian-I think he lives the bible 24-7,It took me a long time to fully understand and accept right division-2Tim2:15"Study to show yourselves approved,a workman not needing to be ashamed,RIGHTLY DIVIDING the WORD OF TRUTH"

[Topped 3]

If Acts II Salvation is the same as ours then why does Ananias and his wife Sapphira fall down and give up the Ghost(Holy Ghost)after Lying to Peter AND the Holy Ghost about how much of THEIR money they gave the Church(they had all things common-This is how they were living then-in fear -like in a real Kingdom-afraid of the wrath of the King).This is not Pauline Grace of God doctrine-you are jumping around the NT using and appropriating passages to fit your theology-listen to mechabearian-I think he lives the bible 24-7,It took me a long time to fully understand and accept right division-2Tim2:15"Study to show yourselves approved,a workman not needing to be ashamed,RIGHTLY DIVIDING the WORD OF TRUTH"

That is in Acts 5:5 (Annanias & Sapphira )Ironically,#5 is repleat with references to death (KJV ) :fear

[CarolLyn]

:thumb :agree I can see that you started this thread to learn about dispensations. I had already started studying dispensations when this thread started and it has taken some time to balance all of the different views. I finally found the article that I posted earlier and found it well balanced and a view I can agree with. Sometimes doctrines can be taken to the extreme and that just lends itself to mass confusion.
Thanks, Beth O, for the article. It is excellent! I read the whole article and pasted it to a MS word document to read again later. I really would like to know more about Progressive Disp. Was that explained in the article under a different name? I get all these names mixed up. Never knew that Ultra Disp. was called Pauline until this tread. :idunno Anyway, any more info you can give about Progressive would be appreciated....or maybe you would be willing to start a new thread? Anyway, thanks again!

[Lexie]

Thanks, Beth O, for the article. It is excellent! I read the whole article and pasted it to a MS word document to read again later. I really would like to know more about Progressive Disp. Was that explained in the article under a different name? I get all these names mixed up. Never knew that Ultra Disp. was called Pauline until this tread. :idunno Anyway, any more info you can give about Progressive would be appreciated....or maybe you would be willing to start a new thread? Anyway, thanks again!

CaroLyn,

Barbara Marx Hubbard, Brian Mclaren, Leonard Sweet, Tim King, Marcus Borg, Jay Gary, Ken Wilber, Jesus Seminar ect are one of the Emergent Church dominionists groups, you have to study, what they are saying, to see what "The Presence" and co-creators in the Kingdom means..They are part if the URI religion at the UN. Some of The manifest son's of God, prophets, are leaning towards it, it shares in mysicism, Sufism, Buddism, ect the mysticism aspects, it's basically the same thing.
http://www.presence.tv/cms/books.php

http://www.wnrf.org/cms/associates.shtml


Paul said, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come” (2 Cor 5:17). God calls us by faith to give ourselves to these new possibilities and to be social architects – to shape the future through originality, creativity, vision and leadership.

http://www.transmillennial.com/articles/firstthings.htm



http://www.levitt.com/essays/progdisp.html

[Mechaberean]

Hey brought my laptop on my trip. It isn't the same message they first had to accept John's water baptism, given to Israel;John1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. They had this before the cross but the one being manifest had died was the only change.For us no not for me i'm not Israel, again Matthew10(Kingdom of heaven)and the above verse baptised to manifest Christ TO ISRAEL isn't for me a Gentile.

[Mechaberean]

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."----------Yep blessed through Israel and meeting in synagogues as Jews or blessing Israel with much alms is what gentiles would be doing if the nation accepted Jesus.(sheep nations,or goat=blessing Israel or not)

[Beth O]

Thanks, Beth O, for the article. It is excellent! I read the whole article and pasted it to a MS word document to read again later. I really would like to know more about Progressive Disp. Was that explained in the article under a different name? I get all these names mixed up. Never knew that Ultra Disp. was called Pauline until this tread. :idunno Anyway, any more info you can give about Progressive would be appreciated....or maybe you would be willing to start a new thread? Anyway, thanks again!

I'm glad you liked the article Carolyn. As far as I've gotten is that dispensations are important to learn about to rightly divide the Word, although I have been warned not to take this teaching to the extreme and become hyper. I would also like to learn more about 'progressive disp' although the word 'progressive' has a bad connotation for me! I guess it's not the words fault it's what the post modern movement has done to the word progressive.

Maybe Heisenough could give some suggestions for further study and even start a new thread. From what I have seen from this thread and others, HIE, knows much more about this topic than I!! :nod

[Beth O]

CaroLyn,

Barbara Marx Hubbard, Brian Mclaren, Leonard Sweet, Tim King, Marcus Borg, Jay Gary, Ken Wilber, Jesus Seminar ect are one of the Emergent Church dominionists groups, you have to study, what they are saying, to see what "The Presence" and co-creators in the Kingdom means..They are part if the URI religion at the UN. Some of The manifest son's of God, prophets, are leaning towards it, it shares in mysicism, Sufism, Buddism, ect the mysticism aspects, it's basically the same thing.
http://www.presence.tv/cms/books.php

http://www.wnrf.org/cms/associates.shtml


Paul said, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come” (2 Cor 5:17). God calls us by faith to give ourselves to these new possibilities and to be social architects – to shape the future through originality, creativity, vision and leadership.

http://www.transmillennial.com/articles/firstthings.htm



http://www.levitt.com/essays/progdisp.html

I'm way confused by your post!! :idunno maybe you could give more description re: how this relates to what we are talking about here? Maybe I just missed something. that is always a possibility! :hehee