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Mechaberean
September 4th, 2007, 12:48 PM
we are perfect Spiritually so yes Paul teaches that second death last foe is even conquered. But physically no we arent yet.

DJHere
September 4th, 2007, 12:52 PM
Israel as a nation rejected Jesus so God turned to the Gentiles it was a slow diminishing but blindness in part has happened to Israel UNTIL(that time) the Fulness of the Gentiles come in; so wether Jewish or Gentile its a Gentile period all things that pertain to the Jewish church are on hold until the rapture.
There is only one body of Christ which is known as what? The church:

22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way. (Eph. 1)

It is made up of both Jew and Gentile:

13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. (1 Cor. 12)

There is one church just as there is one gospel message. Perhaps you should read John 17 for it records:

6"I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. 7Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you. 8For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them. They knew with certainty that I came from you, and they believed that you sent me.9I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. 10All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled....................... 20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,

Who is verses 6-10 referencing? The eleven. Who is verse 20 referencing? Those who believe through their message. The eleven preached the same message as Paul as 1 Cor. 15 clearly teaches when it states:

11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

There is only one gospel message just as there is only one church, the body of Christ. To teach other wise is to deny what God's word clearly states and teaches.

Mechaberean
September 4th, 2007, 12:58 PM
There are two churches one way back in Exodus one formed after Israel rejected Jesus, in Acts 9 on.Acts7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot... Of course spiritually we are one but physically they are the people of God according to the flesh.

Mechaberean
September 4th, 2007, 01:03 PM
you wrote-
There is only one gospel message just as there is only one church, the body of Christ. To teach other wise is to deny what God's word clearly states and teaches.-------------no where does it say this, teh scripture misquoted to prove that point actually says UNTo you Ephesians there should be one gospel preached UNTO YOU.Galations1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. And then he says if circumcised teh only other gospel in Galatyions ,it will profit you nothing.

DJHere
September 4th, 2007, 01:04 PM
Je
(Does anyone have scripture to say that they will be doing sacrifices in the Millenial Kingdom? I am confused on this point, for once they accept Jesus, there should be no need to do sacrifice, but for some reason in the back of my mind, seems that there has been some that says they do.)
I think you may be thinking of what is recorded in Zechariah 14:

16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.

20 On that day HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the LORD's house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar. 21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD Almighty.

or perhaps what is recorded in Ezekiel chapters 40-48.

DJHere
September 4th, 2007, 01:21 PM
23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God,(LOOK here) who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.(two programs)
NO it is not teaching there are two programs for how does it state both groups are saved? Through the same faith: who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Romans 4 asks:

9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12And he is also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.

God's word clearly teaches both groups are saved the same way through faith in Jesus.

There are not two gospels any more than there are two churches. Jew and Gentile alike must place their belief/faith in Jesus to be saved.

DJHere
September 4th, 2007, 01:37 PM
Again teh Holy Spirits presence does not say they arwe sealed ;left Samson but came back left almost left David but Daviod prayed and God gave him sure mercies,left King Saul. I wish you would read teh whole posts
Jesus enacted a new covenant with His sacrifice. Part of the new covenant is indwelling of the Holy Spirit (see Hebrews chapter 10).

Old testament saints were not permanently sealed with the Holy Spirit new testament saints are. No where do you see God's word stating or implying that once the Holy Spirit came upon the disciples he left them. NO WHERE! In fact Jesus told the eleven:

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."(Luke 24)

He told them:

8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1)

Jesus promised:

15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

How long did Jesus state the Holy Spirit would be with them? Forever!

God's word is clear:

19 God is not a man, that he should lie,
nor a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Does he speak and then not act?
Does he promise and not fulfill? (Numbers 23)

Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit and He did. He promised the Holy Spirit would be with them always. Your statments and beliefs clearly deny what God said and what His word states and teaches is true.

Mechaberean
September 4th, 2007, 03:23 PM
He sayed those that He had called as Aposltes He lost none but the one Judas true

DJHere
September 4th, 2007, 03:34 PM
Again died and asleep in the Lord are two different things
And you base this statement of fact on what? Not what is recorded in John 11 where Jesus stated:

"Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

What did Jesus say Lazarus was? Dead!

12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead

Certainly not by what is recorded in 1 Cor. 11:

27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

Fallen asleep as in died.

Certainly not by what is recorded in 1 Thess. 4:

13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.

What is asleep referring to here? One who had died.

How do we know it is speaking about one who had died? Because the next verse states:

14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Where are those who have died in Christ? In heaven with Jesus:

6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. (2 Cor. 5)

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far;[ (Phil. 1)

So what are basing this statement of fact on?

Mechaberean
September 4th, 2007, 03:35 PM
I've seen cults claim they are full of the Holy Spirit like John the Baptist, people try and claim all promises in the bible. But curses none of those belong to them LOL