Pauline Dispensationalism

[Mechaberean]

your reasoning makes no sense in Thessalonians thats what its called dead in the Lord asleep if they were just merely dead God wouldn't have said Lazarus is asleep, there is a reason for it. And thats why its in Thessalonians as asleep those that go on before us.1Thessalonians4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

[Mechaberean]

I've seen cults claim they are full of the Holy Spirit from birth like John the Baptist, people try and claim all promises in the bible. But curses none of those belong to them LOL

[Mechaberean]

dead and not arisen is simply twice dead no ressurection to life. If a Chirtsian dies God calls it asleep unless He needs to explain to a person.

[Mechaberean]

God knows dead and asleep are two different things too but He is making a point. Their flesh maybe dead which is what the Aposltes in the gospels saw but it is merely awaiting its ressurection to the soul. But dead is dead twice dead spiritually and physically. There are two deaths one physical one spiritual.

[Mechaberean]

You have one strange bible ealier on you quoted it as the same faith, its not at all Abraham was saved when he believed he would have a son in his old age "by faith" (Hebrews11). my bible the KJV has the verse you quoted as having the same faith thats weird but here is my bible; Romans3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith(no same faith like yours)

[DJHere]

I submit to all those reading or posting here that the scriptures indicate very clearly when studied carefully that God sovereignly INTERRUPTED His dealings with His people Israel for a secret length of time, but that He will CONTINUE dealing with them in accordance with the same plan beginning at the end of the INTERRUPTION.
What was God's plan from the beginning according to Eph. 1? That all those in Christ would have their sins forgiven and be adopted as God's children.

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

Did the OT speak of the grace that was to come? Yes according to God's word for 1 Peter 1 records:

10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

2 Tim. 3 records:

14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

What holy Scriptures? Romans 1 answers that when it records:

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures

What scriptures contain the prophets writings? The OT.

You might say but what about what Eph. 3 states:

4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

It is clear the gospel was spoken of in the OT. What was not revealed was that the Jews would be joined together with the Gentiles in one body. Isaiah 52 records:

13 See, my servant will act wisely ;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him —
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
and his form marred beyond human likeness—

15 so will he sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand.

Was it prophecied that the Messiah would die? YES! (see Luke 24:44-48)

Was it prophecied He would rise again? YES! (see Luke 24:L44-48).

Was it prophecied He would be a light to the Gentiles? YES! (see Isaiah 42:6; Isaiah 49:6; Luke 2:30-32; Acts 26:23)

What was not made known in the prophetic scriptures was that the Jews and Gentiles would become one body.

As for this:


So there is a very important PURPOSE in understanding that in the scriptures two distinct "good news" were being preached at the juncture when the INTERRUPTION occurred.
Not true for Paul wrote:

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. (1 Tim. 6)

How did Jesus teach a person is born again? By placing their belief/faith in Him (John 1:11-13; 3:14-18; 6:40; John 6:47)

What did He teach brings forgiveness of sins? Faith in Him (John 8:24; Luke 24:44-48).

What did He tell the eleven:

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things.

What did Paul state was the gospel they all preached:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.......... 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. (1 Cor. 15)

The gospel Jesus taught the disciples and told them to proclaim is the same one Paul preached. How then can you claim there were two good news?

The PURPOSE I am pointing to is to defend the truth above from those who deny or just can't quite discern that the INTERRUPTION has taken place.
Just because God has set the nation as a whole aside for a time does not mean they received a different gospel from the one we receive. Romans 3 states very clearly:

28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Through that what? Same faith!


That error leads to taking the separate messages
There was never separate messages. Peter preached Jesus died and rose again just as Paul did (Acts 2:14-41; Acts 13:26-41).

Peter preached the Jews killed Jesus just as Paul did (see Acts 2:14-41; Acts 13:26-41).

Peter preached forgiveness of sins came through Jesus just as Paul did (see Acts 2:38-41; 10:43; Acts 13:38).

Paul stated they preached the same message (1 Cor. 15:1-11). This is what God's word plainly states and teaches.


Recognizing that our's is a salvation distinct and apart from God's dealings with Israel
Is it? Who did God give His word to? The nation of Israel only (Psalms 147:19-20; Romans 3:1-32).

Who was Jesus sent to? The nation of Israel only (Matt. 15:24)

What nationality were the eleven? Jewish!

What nationality was Paul? Jewish!

Who was Jesus a descendant of? David the king of what nation? Israel!

Who was the promise given to? Abraham? Who was Abraham? The father of the Jewish nation. Whose children are we? Abrahams! So how can you claim our salvation is distinct and apart from God's dealings with Israel? Is that what Ephesians 2 states and teaches? NO!

What did Jesus say:

21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. (John 4)

Why was salvation from the Jews? Because the Messiah was promised to the Jewish nation and is a descendant of that nation. Paul wrote:

1Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5Through him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.

How then can you state the gospel presented to the Gentiles was distinct from the Jews? It has its foundation in the promises made to the Jewish nation:

4For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

5May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, 6so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

7Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. 8For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God's truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs 9so that the Gentiles may glorify God for his mercy, as it is written:
"Therefore I will praise you among the Gentiles;
I will sing hymns to your name." 10Again, it says,
"Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people." 11And again,
"Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles,
and sing praises to him, all you peoples." 12And again, Isaiah says,
"The Root of Jesse will spring up,
one who will arise to rule over the nations;
the Gentiles will hope in him." (Romans 15)

[Mechaberean]

Rejoice, O Gentiles, with his people." 11And again,
"Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles----------rejoice with his people= proselytes, gentiles by themselves not.

[Mechaberean]

In this age we are the majority and they are with us the jews if saved.

[Mechaberean]

Was it prophesied ? YES but in first person hid in scropture even David prophesied in first person Psalms22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.
--------Hid in scripture to where no one knew God woulod die other ages didnt know or they would not have crucified teh Lord of glory.

[Mechaberean]

the gospels are not the same John preached the kingdom of heaven and was focused on it. Jesus said when my kingdom is of this world my servants fight, well when john was cast into prison Jesus and his servants weren't fighting, so john questioned the validity of jesus is he the king that should come or do we look for another that will fight and it will be of this world=Kingdom of heaven.