Pauline Dispensationalism

[DJHere]

There are two churches one way back in Exodus one formed after Israel rejected Jesus, in Acts 9 on.Acts7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
40 Saying unto Aaron, Make us gods to go before us: for as for this Moses, which brought us out of the land of Egypt, we wot... Of course spiritually we are one but physically they are the people of God according to the flesh.
Did the nation of Israel reject God and break the covenant He had made with them before Jesus came? Yes! A fact noted by Stephen:

39"But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt.

Jer. records:

31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD. (Jer. 31)

Jesus enacted the new covenant fulfilling the old one and setting it aside (Hebrews chapters 7-10). The old one had been broken (Jer. 31:31-32), as God knew it would be (Deut. chapters 29-31).

What is one of the promises of the New Covenant? Indwelling of the Spirit.

33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

Do all believers receive indwelling of the Spirit? YES!

Do all believers fall under the New Covenant? YES!

Paul wrote:

3You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

The old covenant was enacted with the blood of goats and bulls; the new covenant was enacted with the blood of Christ (Hebrews 9:1-10:22).

Moses sprinkled the people with the blood of animals under the old covenant (Exodus 24); believers are sprinkled with the blood of Christ (1 Peter 1:1-2).

A man is declared righteous under both covenants one way by placing their faith in God (Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 1:16-17; 3:21-25;4:1-9; 10:6-13;1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Hebrews chapter 11).

[Mechaberean]

They rejected God the Father in the Old Testament,God the Son in the Gospels,and God the Holy Spririt in the New Testament.

[Mechaberean]

Abraham believed God not in God. Believed what God told him, as well as all the old testament saints."by faith"

[DJHere]

You noted my statement:

There is only one gospel message just as there is only one church, the body of Christ. To teach other wise is to deny what God's word clearly states and teaches.

You replied:

no where does it say this, teh scripture misquoted to prove that point actually says UNTo you Ephesians there should be one gospel preached UNTO YOU.
Where does Ephesians say that?

Secondly, what does 1 Cor. 15 clearly state:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

It states just as clearly:

11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Clearly showing I have not misquoted the scriptures. What did Jesus tell the eleven:

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24)

Did you note the words: This is what is written?

What was written:

The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

What did Paul write:

3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Same message.

Jesus told the eleven: 48You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24)

Paul wrote:

5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

Peter preached:

39"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (Acts 10)

Paul preached:

38"Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses. (Acts 13)

They preached the same gospel message as Paul stated they did.


Galations1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. And then he says if circumcised teh only other gospel in Galatyions ,it will profit you nothing.
What does Gal. 1 say:

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Gal. 3 records:

1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

What did Peter note at the Jerusalem council:

7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." (Acts 15)

Grace that comes how? Through faith! (Eph. 2:8-9)

Grace that is accessed how? Through that same faith (Romans 5:1-2a).

What did Peter write:

3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

The gospel message Peter preached was the same gospel message Paul preached and that is exactly what the scriptures state and teach.

[DJHere]

He sayed those that He had called as Aposltes He lost none but the one Judas true
Judas was chosen as a disciple but he never placed his belief/faith in Jesus. Jesus said he was unclean (John 13:11). His actions spoke to the fact he was not saved (see John 12:4-6).

[DJHere]

your reasoning makes no sense in Thessalonians thats what its called dead in the Lord asleep if they were just merely dead God wouldn't have said Lazarus is asleep, there is a reason for it.
John 11 clearly states Jesus said Lazarus was asleep:

"Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep;

It teaches just as clearly when the disciples misunderstood what Jesus was saying Jesus told them outright he was dead:

12His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.

14So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead

There are times in scripture where people who have died are spoken of as having fallen alseep (Daniel 12:2; John 11; 1 Cor. 11:28-32; 1 Cor. 15:6; 1 Cor. 15:12-20; 1 Thess. 4:13-14).

1 Thess. 4 is one of those times as I explained in my previous post when I asked:
How do we know it is speaking about one who had died? Because the next verse states:

14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

Where are those who have died in Christ? In heaven with Jesus:

6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7We live by faith, not by sight. 8We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. (2 Cor. 5)

21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; (Phil. 1)

What does 1 Thess. 4 teach will happen with those who have died in Christ when Jesus comes? He will bring them with Him. Thus showing the word asleep in that passage is a reference to their having died.

[DJHere]

dead and not arisen is simply twice dead no ressurection to life. If a Chirtsian dies God calls it asleep unless He needs to explain to a person.
Your statment makes no sense at all for God's word teaches the souls of those who have died physically are either in heaven or hades. The soul never dies just the body. God's word is clear when a person dies his soul will either go to heaven or hades until they are resurrected from the dead (2 Cor. 5:7; Philippians 1:20-22; 2 Peter 2:4-9; Rev. 20:12-15).

[DJHere]

God knows dead and asleep are two different things too but He is making a point. Their flesh maybe dead which is what the Aposltes in the gospels saw but it is merely awaiting its ressurection to the soul. But dead is dead twice dead spiritually and physically. There are two deaths one physical one spiritual.
Christians do not die spiritually they only die physically.

23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6)

[DJHere]

Abraham believed God not in God.
What does Romans 4 record about Abraham:

17As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls things that are not as though they were.

[DJHere]

You have one strange bible ealier on you quoted it as the same faith, its not at all Abraham was saved when he believed he would have a son in his old age "by faith" (Hebrews11). my bible the KJV has the verse you quoted as having the same faith thats weird but here is my bible; Romans3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith(no same faith like yours)
The KJV translates the Greek word hades as hell. Are hades and hell the same place? NO! Does this mistranslation change the fact the place of the unsaved until judgement day is hades? NO!