Pauline Dispensationalism

[HeIsEnough]

djhere you crack me up I say something is written to the Galations and it pertains to Gentiles you say no way. But everything can pull back to the cross and those in Jerusalem right after the cross. LOL


You have a big problem of half quoting my posts and saying what i have already said many times in teh same post. You are a hypocrite by saying i leave stuff out like verses . LOL

It wouldeth be in all goodness.....yea even wise......to perchance, maybe,,,.,.,..........consider thyself firstly in all thy considerations and ponderings forthwith...,..,,..that thy tongue may unleash upon another blood bought believer in Yeshua.

[Topped 3]

In going back over the thread I noticed something
I didn't before:

BIH posted and Topped 3 quoted it:



Topped 3 responded:
This was posted by topped 3 in post #41

I ask Blessed In Him this: How did you so quickly afterward get removed from the truths in your post?

That post was in complete agreement so far as I can tell with our contention that Peter and Paul had Gospels with different content.

Somewhere subsequent to your post you began to oppose the truth by saying someting like "there were not two Gospels because it would be too confusing."

Care to comment BIH?
I concur,God's Trmbn.;sorry BIH,but what you seemingly are professing by your recent posts is like covenant theology or progressive dispensationalism(which doesn't even qualify as dispensationalism at all in my book).Like G.T. says,there are two programs in the N.T.;Pauls Gospel(Mystery program,Kingdom of God,Grace through faith) and Peter's message (Prophetic program,Kingdom of Heaven,Faith and works).Things that differ are NOT the same ! :yay

[God's Trombone]

I learn more and more as time passes that words can cause problems when they are taken to mean something different than what the user of the word intends.

For example, I watched a program on TV today with Les Feldig in which he in passing mentioned that the failure of Israel, and God's turning to the Gentiles "was not an INTERRUPTION."

That would appear on its face to contradict the main point I have been putting forth here, but it isn't a contradiction at all.

I didn't mean the INTERRUPTION was caused by anythingbut that it was the sovereign act of God when He completed His turn from dealing with Israel to the Gentiles. It was no surprise to God which would cause Him to "change plans." It was always known and hidden in the mind of God. Nevertheless, it is an INTERRUPTION of His dealings with Israel because the prophetic scripture which can't be broken says He will complete His work with Israel just as prophesied in scripture.

I hope this will dispel any misunderstanding.:wave

[BlessedinHim]

GT, the original intent of posting of this Pauline Dispensationalism was a study about it. Just because I posted it, didnt mean I agreed with everything I copied and pasted in here. I posted what this point of view was to discuss and examine its validity as measured to the bible. None of mans views are 100 percent in line with what the bible says, including mine. While Jesus was alive, He could not preach Jesus and Him crucified, because it hadnt happened yet. They were blinded to the truth and they didnt accept Christ as their Messiah, and of course then they crucified Him. After the cross, Peter and Paul both preach Jesus and Him crucified, etc. The Jews that do not accept Jesus and Him crucified, etc today will be the ones that will see the one whom they pierced and then they will realize what happened at that time. Then they will believe in Jesus as their Messiah. Paul preached to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles, and so did Peter to some degree. And yes, I still stand behind the statement I made, that if there were two different gospels, that would have created confusion. Jesus preached where He was until His death. After the resurrection, His full message was imparted to Peter, and then Paul got the message on the road to Damascus.

[BlessedinHim]

Topped 3, you dont have to apologize to me. I am still learning, as we all are, what the bible really says. The fact is, we wont understand all of it until He comes.

[DJHere]

djhere you crack me up I say something is written to the Galations and it pertains to Gentiles you say no way.
Apparently you think people cannot read for what did you state:

the Galations verse I posted says unto galations meaning I believe Ephesians and all Gentiels in our age (see post 585)

What did I point out? That you belief was indeed incorrect for the Galatians and Ephesians were not one and the same people. I noted:

And your belief would be wrong as The Bible Knowledge Commentary shows when it notes:
The Epistle of Galatians was addressed "to the churches in Galatia" (1:2). Where was "Galatia," and who were the "Galatians"? (cf. 3:1). This question is complicated by the fact that Galatia had two meanings when this epsitle was written. First, it referred to the area in Asia Minor where the Gauls had settled after migrating from western Europe through Italy and Greece. The territory was limited to the north central and east central areas of Asia Minor and its principle cities were Ancyra, Pessinus, and Tavium. But in 25 B.C. this kingdom was converted to a Roman province, and territory was added to the south, including the cities of Antioch, Iconium, Lystra and Derbe.

A look at the maps linked below show these cities were no where near Ephesus:
http://www.bible-history.com/maps/maps/map_pauls_first_missionary_journey.html

http://www.bible-history.com/maps/asia_minor.html

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/biblemaps/13

In an article on the book of Ephesians it is noted:

In the Book of Acts, the history of church at Ephesus begins with the ministry of Paul on his second missionary journey, as recorded in Acts 18:18-28. Paul, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila, arrived in Ephesus. Paul went to the synagogue in Ephesus and proclaimed Christ, and was asked to stay on and teach further. Paul declined, promising to return later in the will of the Lord, leaving behind Priscilla and Aquila. During Paul’s absence, Apollos arrived, and began to preach those things which pertained to Jesus, based on the Old Testament and on the preaching of John the Baptist. Apollos seems to have been an Old Testament saint, but does not seem to have known about or trusted in Jesus Christ personally. Priscilla and Aquila took Apollos aside and filled him in on that which was lacking in his preaching. In time, he was sent to Achaia, where he powerfully and publicly refuted the Jews, showing that Jesus was indeed the promised Messiah.

After strengthening the believers in “the Galatian region and Phrygia” (18:23), Paul returned to Ephesus, where he spends nearly three years, preaching and teaching. For three months, Paul taught in the synagogue, but then opposition caused him to change his meeting place to the school or Tyrannus, where he reasoned daily for two years (Acts 19:8-10). During this time, God gave supernatural witness to the ministry of Paul by empowering him to perform many miracles (19:11-12). As a result of the chastening of the seven sons of Sceva, many in Ephesus renounced their magical practices, which was demonstrated when they publicly burned their magical books, worth a considerable amount of money. This, in turn, had a great impact on the city (Acts 19:13-20).
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=483

Just one more thing that shows the Galatians and Ephesians were not one and the same people as you proposed.

[DJHere]

DJHere,

Your use of the verses John 6:39, 40 was felicitous
to me. I note that in them:

39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jesus says twice, that those among Israel who believed on HIM , He would raise up ON THE LAST DAY.

Since the scripture has the Gentile church,the Body of Christ raised up (raptured) prior to the "last day", we are separate from those Jesus was addressing.
You have a problem with this view because 1 Thess. 4:13-17 clearly states and teaches all those who have died in Christ come back with Him at the rapture. Are you claiming the Jews who placed their belief/faith in Jesus before He died were not saved? If not they are what? In Christ for how does one get to be included in Christ? One way by placing their belief/faith in Him (Eph.1:13-14). What happens when one places their belief/faith in Jesus? They receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now we know this gift was not given until the day of Pentecost but we also know that those who placed their belief/faith in Him were to receive this gift because Jesus stated:

38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7)

Did you note the words: whom those who believed in him were later to receive?

Jesus was very clear when He stated:

5"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. (John 16)

His word is equally clear baptism of the Spirit is what places one in the body of Christ:

13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. (1 Cor. 13)

How can you believe what you stated is true in light of what is stated in John 7:38-39; 1 Cor. 12:13; and 1 Thess. 4:13-17?


Secondly, who is the church, the bride of Christ made up of? Both Jews and Gentiles, therefore, it is not a Gentile church is it? What does God's word proclaim it is? The body of Christ:

22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Eph. 2 states:

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

What was Jesus' purpose? To bring together in one body Jew and Gentile showing once again it is not a gentile church but a body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile.

Eph. 2 goes on to record:

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household

Who are the ones who are no longer foreigners and aliens? The Gentiles!

Who does God's people reference? The Jewish people.

Clearly showing the church is not just a Gentile church but a body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile.

What does Eph. 3 state:

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

There is not a gentile church and a Jewish church there is one church, made up of both Jew and Gentile that exists as one body.

There is not two gospels there is one gospel that teaches Jesus died and rose again the third day for the forgivness of sins. This was the gospel Paul preached (1 Cor. 15:1-6) and it is the one the others preached as well (Luke 24:44-48; Acts 2:12-41; 10:34-43). Paul was very clear when he stated he and the other apostles taught the same message:

11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. (1 Cor. 15)

You will note that Acts 11 records that the gentiles received the Spirit the same as who? Peter and the eleven. You will also note that Acts 15 records Peter statement about the Gentiles:

11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

When a question came up in the church in Antioch where were Paul and Barnabas sent to find the answer? The church in Jerusalem. God's word never teaches there are two gospels or two churches. NEVER!


As for this:

It is only in the "non-prophetic and unsearchable" MYSTERY scriptures written by Paul that we will find our Gospel.
Is that what Paul stated and taught when he wrote:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. (1 Cor. 15)

Is that what he stated and taught when he wrote:

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. (1 Tim. 6)

What did Jesus teach:

14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Why did Jesus state they remain condemned? Because they did not place their belief/faith in Him.

If what you proposed was true why did Jesus pray:

20"My prayer is not for them alone. (speaking of who? The eleven!) I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message (John 17)

If what you proposed was true why did Jesus tell the eleven:

"This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24)

Why did He tell them:

8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

What did John write:

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our joy complete.

5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. (1 John 1)

What did Peter preach:

34Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. 36You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (Acts 10)

Do the teachings found in the scriptures presented above agree with what you proposed? I fail to see how they do.

[DJHere]

Im with God,s trombone and Mechabearean. You are using a bible that is changing the interpretation of the text,DJH.
It does not change the interpretation or the message for why does God's word teach Abraham was credited with righteousness? Because he had faith:

1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7"Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8Blessed is the man
whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

9Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. (Romans 4)



6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith. (Gal. 3)

Faith in who? God!


What does Hebrews 11 record about faith:

1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.

Abraham was promised he would be the father of many nations. Did he live to see this promise come true? NO! Yet he what? Believed/placed his faith in God believing God would keep His promise to him.


Those scribes and scholars that have perverted the literal meaning of the Bible into an allegorical one,are the ones cursed ,as they pass on their deceptions to the unsuspecting and ignorant readers.
Are you claiming I am being deceptive in what I present?

Are you implying the version I use is deceptive? If so how? And just what do you base these assumptions on? Are they based on your having read the originals?

Secondly, I would ask you to note that Jesus condemned the scribes and Pharisees because they had done what? Replaced the word of God with their own words and teachings nullifying it (Matt. 15:1-15; Mark 7:5-13).

Does the translation I was using do that? NO!

As for perverting God's word. Just where does God's word explicitly state or teach there are two gospels and two churches?

[Mechaberean]

DJhere do you follow stuff written in Galations,and Ephesians ,I would say yes its bible truth right? Well your not a Galation,or Ephesian.

[Mechaberean]

So are you saying DJhere that the Ephesians only followed the book written to them and so on because they didnt attend these other churches in the other areas? LOL