Pauline Dispensationalism

[God's Trombone]

BIH wrote- {my comments underlined}
GT, the original intent of posting of this Pauline Dispensationalism was a study about it. Just because I posted it, didnt mean I agreed with everything I copied and pasted in here.

OK. In the post I quoted, I took it that you agreed with the difference in the Gospels of the kingdom and that to the Gentiles; and I was curious as to what had caused you to change your mind.

I posted what this point of view was to discuss and examine its validity as measured to the bible. None of mans views are 100 percent in line with what the bible says, including mine. While Jesus was alive, He could not preach Jesus and Him crucified, because it hadnt happened yet.

Jesus did preach that He would be killed and also that He would rise again, though this was not understood by any of his hearers at the time.

They were blinded to the truth and they didnt accept Christ as their Messiah, and of course then they crucified Him. After the cross, Peter and Paul both preach Jesus and Him crucified, etc.


BIH, here I must explain that the scripture says otherwise. After the cross and resurrection, Peter continues to preach what Jesus and the scriptures said--- Even though Israel had killed their king, Peter offerred them the kingdom again in Acts 2 and 3 ff. There had been no change in the message, God was still dealing with Israel as Christ had come to earth to do. With the murder of Stephen and the calling of Saul of Tarsus, God began the diminishing of Israel and the revelation of a Gospel to the Gentiles. Only when God sovereignly cast off Israel in unbelief and dispersed her among the Gentile nations was there only ONE Gospel in effect, and that continued until today.

The Jews that do not accept Jesus and Him crucified, etc today will be the ones that will see the one whom they pierced and then they will realize what happened at that time. Then they will believe in Jesus as their Messiah.

Here you make a confused statement. No unbelieving Jews living today can be present when Christ Christ returns, that is future and is after the rapture of the church.


Paul preached to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles, and so did Peter to some degree. And yes, I still stand behind the statement I made, that if there were two different gospels, that would have created confusion. Jesus preached where He was until His death. After the resurrection, His full message was imparted to Peter, and then Paul got the message on the road to Damascus.

Again, you have a confused statement. Peter didn't know about Paul's revelaion before Paul received it from Christ.

[God's Trombone]

DJHere,
There is no communication because you don't really hear what I say. We talk "oranges and apples" because you don't accept the differences." Please see my comments in blue in your post.

You have a problem with this view because 1 Thess. 4:13-17 clearly states and teaches all those who have died in Christ come back with Him at the rapture.

No, the scriptures do not say that. The scriptures tell us that the rapture is not revealed but in Paul's Gospel, Jesus didn't tell anyone about a "rapture" when He was on earth, sent to Israel.You are implying Jesus revealed something in John's Gospel that God says is "hidden from the foundation of the world (Rom. 16:25)

Are you claiming the Jews who placed their belief/faith in Jesus before He died were not saved?
No, of course I am not. What does all the prophetic scripture say about them? They will go into the Kingdom. If dead when Christ returns (they died long ago) they will be resurrected "in that day" just as Christ said.



If not they are what? In Christ for how does one get to be included in Christ? One way by placing their belief/faith in Him (Eph.1:13-14).

Again, you mix "oranges and apples" by quoting Paul in his letter written after the change of God dealing with Israel and turning to the Gentiles.

What happens when one places their belief/faith in Jesus? They receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Now we know this gift was not given until the day of Pentecost but we also know that those who placed their belief/faith in Him were to receive this gift because Jesus stated:

38Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him." 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7)

Did you note the words: whom those who believed in him were later to receive?

Jesus was very clear when He stated:

5"Now I am going to him who sent me, yet none of you asks me, 'Where are you going?' 6Because I have said these things, you are filled with grief. 7But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. (John 16)

His word is equally clear baptism of the Spirit is what places one in the body of Christ:

13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. (1 Cor. 13)

How can you believe what you stated is true in light of what is stated in John 7:38-39; 1 Cor. 12:13; and 1 Thess. 4:13-17?


Secondly, who is the church, the bride of Christ made up of? Both Jews and Gentiles, therefore, it is not a Gentile church is it? What does God's word proclaim it is? The body of Christ:

22And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Eph. 2 states:

11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

What was Jesus' purpose? To bring together in one body Jew and Gentile showing once again it is not a gentile church but a body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile.

Eph. 2 goes on to record:

19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household

Who are the ones who are no longer foreigners and aliens? The Gentiles!

Who does God's people reference? The Jewish people.

Clearly showing the church is not just a Gentile church but a body of believers made up of both Jew and Gentile.

What does Eph. 3 state:

2Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles and prophets. 6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

There is not a gentile church and a Jewish church there is one church, made up of both Jew and Gentile that exists as one body.

There is not two gospels there is one gospel that teaches Jesus died and rose again the third day for the forgiveness of sins. This was the gospel Paul preached (1 Cor. 15:1-6) and it is the one the others preached as well (Luke 24:44-48; Acts 2:12-41; 10:34-43). Paul was very clear when he stated he and the other apostles taught the same message:

11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. (1 Cor. 15)

You will note that Acts 11 records that the gentiles received the Spirit the same as who? Peter and the eleven. You will also note that Acts 15 records Peter statement about the Gentiles:

11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

When a question came up in the church in Antioch where were Paul and Barnabas sent to find the answer? The church in Jerusalem. God's word never teaches there are two gospels or two churches. NEVER!


As for this:


Is that what Paul stated and taught when he wrote:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed. (1 Cor. 15)

Is that what he stated and taught when he wrote:

3If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. (1 Tim. 6)

What did Jesus teach:

14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Why did Jesus state they remain condemned? Because they did not place their belief/faith in Him.

If what you proposed was true why did Jesus pray:

20"My prayer is not for them alone. (speaking of who? The eleven!) I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message (John 17)

If what you proposed was true why did Jesus tell the eleven:

"This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high." (Luke 24)

Why did He tell them:

8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (Acts 1:8)

What did John write:

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4We write this to make our joy complete.

5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. (1 John 1)

What did Peter preach:

34Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right. 36You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39"We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree, 40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name." (Acts 10)

Do the teachings found in the scriptures presented above agree with what you proposed? I fail to see how they do.

Acts 2 is in the prophetic portion of Scripture, the coming of the Holy Spirit on Israeli believers there is not the "One Baptism" of EphesiansPaul's "new creature" in the Gospel to the Gentiles is baptized by the Spirit into the Body and sealed. In the case of the Kingdom saints, they are not..

All of the
discrepancy between your conclusions and mine is due to the key I pointed out: God set aside Israel and the offered kingdom temporarily and Chris gave Paul the Gospel of grace to be preached until the fullness (last member of the Body) in and then He will continue with Israel.

What did I say about John 6/? Jesus said they (His audience in Israel) would be resurrected at the "last day", but Paul is speaking of our rapture not Jesus audience in John 6. For you to claim such implies Jesus was disclosing what scripture says remained "hidden in God." Jesus never did that. No one comes "with Christ" in the air when He catches away both the dead and living saints saints in I Thess. 4:17 as you wrote.

When I write "Gentile Church" it denotes both Jews and Gentiles that believed the Gospel Paul preached, and he is described in scripture as "the apostle to the Gentiles." (Rom. 11:13)

Your penchant for bringing verses from Paul and mixing them with Kingdom verses is exactly why I am posting here- to explain that they cannot be mixed when we rightly divide the word of truth .

Difficulty Of Understanding.

I experienced difficulty grasping the truth of the difference in the Kingdom Gospel and our Gospel because I stumbled over what appeared to me to be "insincerity or double-mindedness" that Jesus preached the Kingdom message all the way up to His ascension, and that the kingdom would eventually be set aside temporarily. I now see clearly why this was not the case. Jesus did the will of the Father in all things, and up until the time God sovereignly stopped dealing with Israel and turned to the Gentiles, Jesus did exactly what He was sent to Israel to do. Then from heaven He revealed the mystery of what God was now doing in turning to the Gentiles. (Romans 11).

This is why many use the descriptive word "parenthesis" to describe the interruption of God's prophetic program for Israel and the "insertion " of the dispensation in which we now live.

[BlessedinHim]

GT,
Bold you wrote.


They were blinded to the truth and they didnt accept Christ as their Messiah, and of course then they crucified Him. After the cross, Peter and Paul both preach Jesus and Him crucified, etc.

BIH, here I must explain that the scripture says otherwise. After the cross and resurrection, Peter continues to preach what Jesus and the scriptures said--- Even though Israel had killed their king, Peter offerred them the kingdom again in Acts 2 and 3 ff. There had been no change in the message, God was still dealing with Israel as Christ had come to earth to do. With the murder of Stephen and the calling of Saul of Tarsus, God began the diminishing of Israel and the revelation of a Gospel to the Gentiles. Only when God sovereignly cast off Israel in unbelief and dispersed her among the Gentile nations was there only ONE Gospel in effect, and that continued until today.

I believe they were still thinking in a more concrete way, a real political thing, whereas, the Kingdom of God/Heaven is in our hearts. In the verse below, it just says kingdom. Not kingdom of God, not kingdom of Heaven, just kingdom. How everything will actually play out, I suppose we will find out at the right time.

Acts 1:6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


The Jews that do not accept Jesus and Him crucified, etc today will be the ones that will see the one whom they pierced and then they will realize what happened at that time. Then they will believe in Jesus as their Messiah.

Here you make a confused statement. No unbelieving Jews living today can be present when Christ Christ returns, that is future and is after the rapture of the church.

Your statement is more confusing. No unbelieving Jews living today can be present when Christ returns? why is that? Are they all going to die before He comes back to the Mt. of Olives?

Paul preached to the Jews as well as to the Gentiles, and so did Peter to some degree. And yes, I still stand behind the statement I made, that if there were two different gospels, that would have created confusion. Jesus preached where He was until His death. After the resurrection, His full message was imparted to Peter, and then Paul got the message on the road to Damascus.

Again, you have a confused statement. Peter didn't know about Paul's revelaion before Paul received it from Christ.


I dont think that is what I said at all. I didnt say Peter knew about Paul before it happened.

Acts2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Looks like the gospel of grace to me.

1. hear the gospel
2. see you have a problem
3. see the solution

a. repent
b. be baptized
c. receive the holy spirit
d. spread the good news

this is the same message Paul preached.

Acts 13
1Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

Apparently Paul has been with Barnabas since Barnabas fetched him, shortly after Paul's conversion. Here is where Paul is called out to do the separate work. Separate work, not different gospel.

46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.


Here the gospel, preached by Paul to the Jews first, is not turning to the Gentiles. Same message. Different audience.

Acts 16:30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.



Paul in Practice

Acts 17
1Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

2And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

3Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

4And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.



Paul reasoned with them out of the scriptures. the Gospel message has been in the OT, just not revealed until the right time.

[DJHere]

So are you saying DJhere that the Ephesians only followed the book written to them and so on because they didnt attend these other churches in the other areas? LOL
Where did I state or claim any such thing? I didn't!

Why make such a false allegation? Could it be you did this to try and cover up the fact you are the one who misquoted scripture?

What led to this discussion? My statement:

There is only one gospel message just as there is only one church, the body of Christ. To teach other wise is to deny what God's word clearly states and teaches.

Post 554 records you replied to this statement by claiming:

no where does it say this, teh scripture misquoted to prove that point actually says UNTo you Ephesians there should be one gospel preached UNTO YOU.Galations1:8
I replied:

Where does Ephesians say that?

It doesn't so to try and cover your misquotation of scripture what did you do? Tried to claim that:
the Galations verse I posted says unto galations meaning I believe Ephesians and all Gentiels in our age

Who does Gal. 1 state the book of Galatians was addressed to?

To the churches in Galatia: (Gal. 1)

Was Ephesus in Galatia? NO! So even though the message contained in Galatians is for all believers it was not addressed to the Ephesians as you stated and claimed, but to the churches in Galatia, clearly showing you, not me, misquoted scripture.


Secondly, I asked:

What does 1 Cor. 15 clearly state:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

I have noted several times this is the same gospel Peter preached (see Acts 2:12-41; and Acts 10:34-11:12).

I noted 1 Cor. 15:11 states just as clearly that Paul and the others preached the same gospel:

11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Clearly showing I have not misquoted the scriptures.

I asked:

What did Jesus tell the eleven:

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24)

I asked:

Did you note the words: This is what is written?

I asked what was written:

That: the Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

I asked:

What did Paul write:

3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Clearly showing all preached the same message.

[DJHere]

DJHere,
There is no communication because you don't really hear what I say. We talk "oranges and apples" because you don't accept the differences." Please see my comments in blue in your post
I will have to answer what you posted on Friday as I have babysitting duties with my granddaughter today and other business to attend to tomorrow. Just wanted you to know I was not ignoring what you stated.

DJ

PS it is not that I am not hearing what you say I just don't happen to agree with it.

[God's Trombone]

My comments on your post are underlined.

GT,
Bold you wrote.



I believe they were still thinking in a more concrete way, a real political thing, whereas, the Kingdom of God/Heaven is in our hearts. In the verse below, it just says kingdom. Not kingdom of God, not kingdom of Heaven, just kingdom. How everything will actually play out, I suppose we will find out at the right time.

The scripture tells us the Kingdom will be established on earth, and it is going to be very real and, as you put it "concrete". You seem to be raising doubt about this truth. When John the Baptist and Jesus were on earth proclaiming "the kingdom is at hand", it was because Jesus was there. As Paul later wrote Israel did not receive that which she looked for because she didn't believe that Jesus was Who He said He was. I caution you not to be among those who deny what the scripture says and claim that the "Kingdom" must be "spiritualized away."



Acts 1:6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

8But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Your quoted verses mean what they say, no more, no less. Verse 1:6 has the apostles asking if Christ was "at this time" going to restore the kingdom. In the next verse He tells them they are not to know the time yet. And in verse 1:8 He tells them of the empowerment they are to receive from the Holy Spirit to go out and continue to preach the kingdom offer to Israel, and then after Israel, Samaria and everywhere.




Your statement is more confusing. No unbelieving Jews living today can be present when Christ returns? why is that? Are they all going to die before He comes back to the Mt. of Olives?

Only unbelieving Jews who are living when Christ returns will be present is what I meant to say. You implied that all Unbelieving Jews of all time would be, and that is not correct. Jews now living in this Grace age have the choice of believing the Gospel just as we Gentiles. If we get caught up to be with the Lord tomorrow, yes these unbelieving Jews will stand a chance of being alive when Christ comes back.



I dont think that is what I said at all. I didnt say Peter knew about Paul before it happened.

Acts2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.

40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Looks like the gospel of grace to me.

1. hear the gospel
2. see you have a problem
3. see the solution

a. repent
b. be baptized
c. receive the holy spirit
d. spread the good news

this is the same message Paul preached.



Apparently Paul has been with Barnabas since Barnabas fetched him, shortly after Paul's conversion. Here is where Paul is called out to do the separate work. Separate work, not different gospel.



Here the gospel, preached by Paul to the Jews first, is not turning to the Gentiles. Same message. Different audience.



Paul in Practice



Paul reasoned with them out of the scriptures. the Gospel message has been in the OT, just not revealed until the right time.

Peter in Acts as you quoted continued to preach
to Israel that Jesus was indeed the Christ, even after His death on the cross. Whereas Paul's Gospel he was preaching when he went into the synagogues was first that Christ was the Messiah (as Peter preached) but that He came to die for all men's sins. This made Paul's and Peter's Gospels different. This lasted until God sovereignly concluded unbelieving Israel among the Gentiles and then there was but one Gospel, that of Grace to the Gentiles. (Read Romans 11 to understand this.)

[Topped 3]

My comments on your post are underlined.



Peter in Acts as you quoted continued to preach
to Israel that Jesus was indeed the Christ, even after His death on the cross. Whereas Paul's Gospel he was preaching when he went into the synagogues was first that Christ was the Messiah (as Peter preached) but that He came to die for all men's sins. This made Paul's and Peter's Gospels different. This lasted until God sovereignly concluded unbelieving Israel among the Gentiles and then there was but one Gospel, that of Grace to the Gentiles. (Read Romans 11 to understand this.)

Yes , GT , It's so encouraging to hear such confirmation and from totally new and unique persectives. Seeing this important truth of God's Grace has opened up the Bible to those who embrace it with a renewed excitement and appreciation for God's word as it applies to Prophesy and Mystery,circumcision in the flesh,and circumcision of the spirit. Awesome stuff ! :thumb

[Mechaberean]

Where did I state or claim any such thing? I didn't!

Why make such a false allegation? Could it be you did this to try and cover up the fact you are the one who misquoted scripture?

What led to this discussion? My statement:

There is only one gospel message just as there is only one church, the body of Christ. To teach other wise is to deny what God's word clearly states and teaches.
--------where does God says there is only one? One preached to you Galations to you Galations is the only one I can find in scripture.----------
Post 554 records you replied to this statement by claiming:

I replied:

Where does Ephesians say that?

It doesn't so to try and cover your misquotation of scripture what did you do? Tried to claim that:

Who does Gal. 1 state the book of Galatians was addressed to?----Galations at first but all Gentile Christians also including Ehesians, why even you---------

To the churches in Galatia: (Gal. 1)

Was Ephesus in Galatia? NO! So even though the message contained in Galatians is for all believers---------there you said it yourself you are contradicting yourself--------- it was not addressed to the Ephesians as you stated and claimed, but to the churches in Galatia, clearly showing you, not me, misquoted scripture. --------You said up above its for all believers but not for the Ephesian believers which is it? can't have it both ways----------


Secondly, I asked:

What does 1 Cor. 15 clearly state:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

I have noted several times this is the same gospel Peter preached (see Acts 2:12-41; and Acts 10:34-11:12). -------Yeah but its not water baptism to get the Spirit is clearly seen in Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized(WATER)every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost(Holy Spirit baptism,plain as day)

I noted 1 Cor. 15:11 states just as clearly that Paul and the others preached the same gospel:------Nope they didn't ran to the tomb didn't understand the death, believed in the Kingdom of Heave; Jesus said when my kingdom is of this world my servants fight this is teh kingdom they preached and Peter even fought knocked an ear off of Malchus-------------

11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Clearly showing I have not misquoted the scriptures.

I asked:

What did Jesus tell the eleven:

44He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms."

45Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48You are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24)

I asked:

Did you note the words: This is what is written?

I asked what was written:

That: the Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.-------------I told you ya it was there but buried in first person quotes etc...----------

I asked:

What did Paul write:

3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,-------sorry Abraham believed God what He told him; he would have a child in his old age.--------------------

Clearly showing all preached the same message.

see i have written much and repeated myself here read it once or I'm doomed to have to keep tellin ya.

[Mechaberean]

The Old Testament did not, I repeat did not preach what we did, though it was hidden there. They even went to Abraham's bosom or Hell not to Heaven or Hell. Their sins only being covered they still had them and had to wait til the promise the hidden message in the Old Testament of the cross should come. Wanna see it hid? in first person like I said BEFORE, and probasbly will say again Psalms22:12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.
13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.
17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.
18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.(David made it sound like him HUH? YEP)

[Mechaberean]

I truley believe you are contradicting yourself DJ here its for all believers but not for Epheisans; which is it
?