Pauline Dispensationalism

[BlessedinHim]

-----------Trouble is people were saved in teh Old Testament from Hell to Abraham's bosom which isn't a parable; parables are non specific people " a certain Samaritan etc.." Before the cross no one went to Heaven but two exceptions Enoch and Elijah. Jesus is what you call the first man after the cross to go and He took captivity captive those kept in Abrams bosom were freed by the gospel(Jesus himself preached it to them) their sin only covered up until the cross were gone and they were able to enter God's presence.

and they were saved through faith in Jesus, by hearing the word. Their faith was counted as righteousness.

[Mechaberean]

God said He would go to the Gentiles and He did DJhere as Israel rejected their messiah and became an enemy of the gospel God said come out from among all unbelievers and be not unequally yoked so Jews joined us. And we see the Apostles stayed in Jerusalem by the great persecution that arose they were the only ones that stayed, and were martyered.

[Mechaberean]

after the cross amen but it was sight they needed no faith they saw Jesus Himself.

[BlessedinHim]

they already had faith to be in Abrahams bosom, right? But they still had to believe in Jesus, that He was the Messiah.

[Beth O]

and they were saved through faith in Jesus, by hearing the word. Their faith was counted as righteousness.

That's what I was going to say!! Yes there are many examples of belief in the OT. Their belief was in the coming of the future Messiah, Jesus. Our belief is looking back at His sacrifice already made. The sacrifice of animals pointed to the future sacrifice of Jesus. Our communion, Lord's Supper is looking back to the sacrifice of Jesus.

Adam was the first believer in the future Messiah that would come from Eve's seed.

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

At the time it was just Adam and Eve. Adam shows his belief in the future Messiah by calling Eve the mother of all living. In Gen 3:15 God says He will put enmity between the serpents seed and Eve's seed. Adam is looking forward to the seed that will come from Eve.

[Mechaberean]

they already had faith to be in Abrahams bosom, right? But they still had to believe in Jesus, that He was the Messiah.

---------yep, I bet they were pretty pumped to get outta there, have a little more leg room and not have to look at Hell and those in it.

[Topped 3]

That is ok Topped3, this is part of the Pauline dispensationalism. As GT pointed out, this theology says there are 2 gospels, I dont agree with that, cant see 2 gospels. I see one church and one gospel, and then Israel still to deal with. In fact, I believe He is already to begin dealing with them, at least Israel is back on the table again. Jesus is returning soon.

Only Paul's Gospel is unique and supercedes the message by Peter and the Disciples in this dispensation. God put the Jewish Nation in Abeyance until He reinstates it after the Rapture . That is your 2 Gospels . One message that flowed into the dispensation of Grace we now live in . Differences ? Miracles ceased .Signs ceased. Healings ceased.Early Acts socialism ceased.The Kingdom of Heaven(Christ on David's Throne )didn't Shortly follow . 4 things happened that may have been the catalyst that suspended the Hastening of the Messianic Kingdom and caused God to commission Paul instead . 1)They crucified their King. 2)They stoned Steven.."Ye always resist the Holy Ghost".(strike one) . 3) They worshipped Herod.."It is the voice of a god and not a man"(strike two) . 4) They rejected Paul when he preached to the Jews first.."From henceforth we go to the Gentiles"(strike three,they're out,now God recognizes no national affilliation,male nor female , Jew or Gentile.)

[graceforme]

This is a devotional I receive each day from the Berean Bible Society. I thought it might interest some of the posters in this thread.


September 17, 2007

REBELLION AGAINST PAULINE AUTHORITY
by Cornelius R. Stam

One of the chief reasons why so many sincere religious people are left in doubt and uncertainty as to salvation is because the organized Church has rebelled against a distinct and important revelation from God to us who live in this present age. This revelation is found in the inspired words of Paul, in Rom. 11:13:

"For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles. I magnify mine office."

Many minimize that which the Word of God magnifies here. They insist upon following Peter rather than Paul, failing to see that Peter’s authority concerned the now-rejected kingdom of Christ on earth over Israel and the nations. Our Lord had said to His twelve apostles:

"Verily I say unto you, that ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, YE ALSO SHALL SIT UPON TWELVE THRONES, JUDGING THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL" (Matt. 19:28).

Surely there are no twelve tribes in the Church today, nor was any provision, specific or implied, made by our Lord for "apostolic succession." This dogma is built upon the unscriptural assumption that the Church today is the kingdom which Christ established when on earth, and that our ministry today is but a perpetuation of that which the twelve began.

The fact is that the ministry of the twelve was halted by the rejection of the King and His kingdom and that the apostles themselves finally agreed to turn their proposed Gentile ministry over to Paul, that other apostle, to whom had been committed "the gospel of the grace of God" (Read carefully, Gal. 2:2-9 and Acts 20:24).

If only the confused religious masses could see that when Israel joined the Gentiles in rebellion against God, when the world’s sin had risen to its height and all was ready for judgment, God revealed "the exceeding riches of His grace" by saving Saul, the chief of sinners, and sending him forth as both the herald and the living example of His grace! Thus he writes:

"Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound, BUT WHERE SIN ABOUNDED, GRACE DID MUCH MORE ABOUND: "THAT AS SIN HATH REIGNED UNTO DEATH, EVEN SO MIGHT GRACE REIGN, through righteousness, unto eternal life, by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:20,21).
.
Have a wonderful, Christ-filled day.

[Topped 3]

Nice GFM !

[HeIsEnough]

Many minimize that which the Word of God magnifies here. They insist upon following Peter rather than Paul, failing to see that Peter’s authority concerned the now-rejected kingdom of Christ on earth over Israel and the nations. Our Lord had said to His twelve apostles:

Conversely, many over magnify what is being stated.

Who here is 'insisting' on following Peter? Undoubtably, this is directed at the RCC.

However, non Paulinists do not discount Peter, John et al, over Paul, as Paulinists seem to....which harkens back to Paul's own admonitions to refuse to let people cling to him like this. Paul states we follow Christ, whether it was the twelve or him they proclaimed the same message, and that is what non Paulinist dispensationalists state.

The fact is that the ministry of the twelve was halted by the rejection of the King and His kingdom and that the apostles themselves finally agreed to turn their proposed Gentile ministry over to Paul, that other apostle, to whom had been committed "the gospel of the grace of God" (Read carefully, Gal. 2:2-9 and Acts 20:24).


As was already stated and proven, the "the gospel of the grace of God" was given to Israel firstly, as Paul clearly proved by his actions, and the Holy Spirit states unequivocally in His word.

It's not as if what is stated by this article is cause enough to correct it, what is not stated and related, folded in as a more complete theology forces a response. Until these sorts of issues are addressed in a way that acknowledges the dilemma, I feel I am hearing just a one sided pov.