Pauline Dispensationalism

[HeIsEnough]

It seems like some of us are still trying to focus on what we do, as opposed to staying focused on what Christ did and His finished work on the cross. Folks, it's not about US, it's all about HIM.

God wants man to know that we could never keep the law, that's why we need to place our trust in Christ as Savior. When we attempt to save ourselves by keeping the law, we exhaust ourselves and still need the Savior.


I hesitate to post this, but you may be confused as to what is being discussed here, if this is what you believe the focus is....

Peter acknowledged where his salvation came from, specifically and exactly in opposition to being justified by law, if that is a claim that the "gospel to Israel" contained this concept, for lack of a more fitting description...

What is being discussed, among other things, is whether Peter actually preached a gospel of law, and whether Israel actually has a gospel of law, which Paul later goes on to say it was never a gospel to begin with, whether old testament or new.

So, you can show us where Peter preached a gospel of law, or you can state as many here have that whatever confusion the original Apostles did have at the beginning about this, during this transition as you refer it, it is clear they didn't believe it long, not even conceding they believed it at all.

[BlessedinHim]

Peter preached faith. Faith and Grace go hand in hand.

Acts 3:13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

17And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.

18But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

22For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Peter is preaching Jesus and Him crucified, and risen.

Acts3:8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

9If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;

10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.


There is one way. Belief, faith and grace.

5Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.

Acts 8:13Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.



Still see the plan of salvation worked out here.

Acts 8:35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.



Acts 9:26And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.

27But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

28And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.

29And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.

30Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus.

31Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.



Paul was with the apostles for some time here. Preaching in the name of Jesus.

Acts 10:34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:)

37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;

38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

39And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:

40Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;

41Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead.

42And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.



The gospel of grace worked out before you.

Acts 11: 9But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

11And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.

12And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:

13And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?



belief, faith, grace.

Acts 13
1Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

2As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

3And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.

39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

42And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

43Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.

Paul preached to the Jews.

Acts 14
1And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.

2But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

He is still preaching to the Jews first and then to the Gentiles. Here you can see that God has stirred up some jealousy

Acts 15
1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.




Over and over, the scripture says that the gospel is the gospel is the gospel. Let 2 or 3 witnesses establish a thing.

Peters gospel = Pauls gospel. They simply had 2 different audiences. While Peters focus was on the Jew, Pauls focus was on the Gentile. Paul still followed the commands to a tee. To the Jew first and then to the Gentiles. As did Peter.

There is one true gospel, preached by Peter and Paul, the apostles and desciples. Were there a few minor differences at the start? Yes,(especially the circumcision question) but once the problem was shown, the problem was solved, and harmony was restored.

[Mechaberean]

It was questioned wether or not the Jewish Apostles disobeyed God by staying in Jerusalem; I don't think so its were they met, they are the ministers OF the circumsion. It doesnt say TO like alot of people read it. Circumsion is a contract between God and Israel forever as also scripture was quoted showing.

[BlessedinHim]

the circumcision of the forskin is of the law
circumcision of the heart is of the spirit

the message was the same, the Jews had a different transition going on for them because of the circumcision before the cross, that created some confusion for them. where as the gentiles didnt have any need to worry about it because grace and faith worked a circumcision of the heart which is spiritual. circumcision is nothing after the cross. except the circumcision of the heart which is necessary because it is spiritual and done by the Holy Spirit.

[graceforme]

Okay, thanks for pointing out that I mis-interpreted some of the posts here. With that said, I bow out and leave this discussion to the rest of you. I know exactly what I believe concerning the kingdom program vs. the Body of Christ, and can see no constructive result to this discussion.

God bless, and keep looking up!

[Mechaberean]

Genesis17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.--------This physical one is forever for them seen here.

[DJHere]

Genesis17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.--------This physical one is forever for them seen here.
What is circumcision of the flesh? A sign. A sign of what? The covenant God made with Abraham. It this the only circumsion spoken of in scripture? NO! What other circumcision is spoken of? Circumcision of the heart:

12 And now, O Israel, what does the LORD your God ask of you but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the LORD's commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?
14 To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it. 15 Yet the LORD set his affection on your forefathers and loved them, and he chose you, their descendants, above all the nations, as it is today. 16 Circumcise your hearts, therefore, and do not be stiff-necked any longer. 17 For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes. 18 He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing. 19 And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt. 20 Fear the LORD your God and serve him. Hold fast to him and take your oaths in his name. (Deut. 10)

What does this circumcision bring? Praise from God:

28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God. (Romans 2)

Who accomplishes this circumcision? God!

6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. (Deut. 30)

9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. 11In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ (Col. 2)

Jeremiah commanded the people:

3 This is what the LORD says to the men of Judah and to Jerusalem:
"Break up your unplowed ground
and do not sow among thorns.

4 Circumcise yourselves to the LORD,
circumcise your hearts,
you men of Judah and people of Jerusalem,
or my wrath will break out and burn like fire
because of the evil you have done—
burn with no one to quench it. (Jer. 4)

Why would God's wrath burn like fire if they did not circumcise their hearts? The Bible Knowledge Commentary explains:

4:2 God promised to respond positively if Israel and Judah would indeed return to Him. However, the repentance had to be genuine. The detestable idols had to be removed from God's sight, and the people could no longer go astray after their false gods. Yet if the nations of Israel and Judah did repent, they would be blessed by God.
4:3-4 Jeremiah then used two metaphors to show the need for repentance. The first metaphor pertained to farming. Just as a farmer does not sow his seed on unplowed ground, so God does not sow His seed of blessing in unrepentant hearts. The men of Judah and...Jerusalem needed to break up the unplowed ground of their hearts through repentance. The second metaphor came from the Jewish practice of circumcision. Circumcision was a sign of being under God's covenant with Israel (cf. Gen. 17:9-14). The men, though circumcised physically, needed to circumcise their hearts so that their inward condition matched their outward profession (cf. Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 9:25-26; Romans 2:28-29).
Unless Judah did exercise true repentance--not just outward profession--God's wrath would be released and would burn like fire against the people.

Who receives circumcision of the heart according to the scriptures presented above? All those who place their faith and trust in God. Why was Abraham to be circumcised in the flesh? As a sign of what God had promised. Why is one baptized with water? To show one belongs to Jesus. Why are both things done? In fulfillment of a command of God. Does either make one right with God? NO for how does scripture teach one is made right with God? One way through faith!

Romans 4 is clear when it records:

We have been saying that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised.

What does this scripture teach? That it was not Abraham being circumcised that made him right with God but his faith. Just as Abraham was not made righteous before God by circumcision so to we are not made right with God by being baptized with water for water baptism follows one having placed their faith in God just as Abraham's circumcion followed his having placed his faith in God. Both were/are outward expressions of something that had/has already taken place in the heart.

Does Jeremiah four teach a man can be physically circumcised and not be right with God? Yes! Does the NT teach a man can be baptized with water without having placed his faith in God? Yes! (see Acts 8:9-22). Therefore neither circumcison of the flesh or water baptism make one right with God; both are done in fulfillment of a command of God but neither allow one to be declared right before God. What allows a man to be declared righteous before God? One thing faith in God! (Romans chapter 4; Eph. 1:3-7; 1 Cor. 1:30; 2 Cor. 5:21).

[DJHere]

Good words. It seems like some of us are still trying to focus on what we do, as opposed to staying focused on what Christ did and His finished work on the cross. Folks, it's not about US, it's all about HIM. That was the message that Paul was given to take to the Gentile nations - Jesus and his disciples taught law - Paul brought the message of God's grace to all who would listen and believe.
Does your statement agree with what is recorded in this scripture:

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." (Acts 15)

[DJHere]

It was questioned wether or not the Jewish Apostles disobeyed God by staying in Jerusalem; I don't think so its were they met, they are the ministers OF the circumsion. It doesnt say TO like alot of people read it. Circumsion is a contract between God and Israel forever as also scripture was quoted showing.What do the words "ministers of the circumsion" refer to? The fact they were ministers to the Jewish people for who are referred to as "the circumcision" in scripture? The Jewish people (see Acts 10:45; 11:2; Romans 2:26-29; Romans 3:28-30; Romans 4:9-16; Romans 15:7-9).

Who does Gal. 2 teach Peter, James and John were to be assigned to be ministers to? The Jewish people:

8For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. (Gal. 2)

Does this scripture or any other teach they preached a different gospel? NO!

Acts 15 records:

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

1 Cor. 15 records:

1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Why do you ignore what these scriptures plainly state and teach?

[DJHere]

--------------God's word is clear he that believes and is baptised will be saved. He that doesn't believe obviously won't be baptised the next step for them. He that believes AND IS BAPTISED will be saved. God must have been careless with words there for you DJ. threw a couple more in for fun.--------------
God's word is clear those who are condemned are condemned because they have not placed their faith in God not because they have not been baptized with water. What baptism places one in the body of Christ? Baptism of the Spirit:

13For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

What does Romans 8 clearly state:

And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

How does God's word teach one receives the Spirit? One way through faith! (John 7:38-39; Eph. 1:13-14; Gal. 4:4-6).

Does God's word show men received the Spirit before they were baptized with water? YES!

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47"Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 10)

Does it teach there were some who were baptized with water but not truly saved? YES!

12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

18When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money 19and said, "Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."

20Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.

Clearly showing baptism of water does not bring salvation but follows one being saved.

You may say but verse 13 states Simon believed? I would note he did not receive the Holy Spirit so it appears his belief was like that of the demons spoken of in James 2.