Pauline Dispensationalism

[Mechaberean]

Romans written to Gentiles? Romans2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law---written to Gentiles also called Jews which are known as proselytes.

[Topped 3]

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. ---------Ah first Gentile book
It's not a foolproof system,BIH,Cuz Rom. & I&II Cor. are transitional books,and paul is touching on works and grace doctrine in those books setting a precedent and laying a groundwork(the Law is the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ) that we SHOULD follow in obedience,but cannot always because of the sin nature that remains in us believers. The of,through,by and in faith thing is an example of how some bibles such as the NIV will substitute the "of"of the KJV for "in".Faith "of" Christ is not faith "in"Christ",but by changing one word(the NIV is riddled with omissions and substitute words),you change the importance of correct doctrine,and rob uninformed christians of TRUTH.Paul jumps back and forth through the transitional epistles citing examples of Jewish/Proselyte christian salvation doctrine and Gentile christian doctrine. You have to "rightly Divide " these distinctions. :doh

[Topped 3]

I guess my answer to that would be that before Acts 10 the Gentiles had not been given the message of the gospel. (Acts 10:6, 22, 32-33, 11:13-14.

Nor did Peter or any of the disciples understand the gospel according to grace previous to Paul being given the message of grace by divine revelation from Christ. The twelve had gone about preaching the gospel of the kingdome, as they had no understanding of, nor did they believe that Christ would be crucified, die, and then be resurrected on the third day. Peter even attempted to prevent the crucifixion (Matt. 16:21-23).

And prior to the actual event taking place, the disciples still lacked understanding. (Luke 18:31-34)

Even immediately after the resurrection had taken place, there was neither understanding or rejoicing. (John 20:9).

Paul reveal that the mystery was hidden from the princes of this world so that the Lord could confound his enemies. (1 Cor. 2:7-8).

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 clearly shows that after preaching the gospel of the kingdom for more than three years, the people of the four gospels did not know what Paul would learn from the resurrected Christ.

The fact that Christ "was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification." (Romans 4:25) was mystery information delivered to Paul, information the disciples never comprehended.

Today, in this present dispensation of grace, the kingdom is no longer being offered to Israel, as they rejected their kingdom and crucified their King. God's prophesied kingdome temporarily has been set aside, and it is no longer at hand. The gospel of the kingdom that the disciples were preaching does not apply to this present dispensation, because there is no salvation today apart from the gospel of the grace of God. The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of grace are different and no one had knowledge of the gospel of the grace of God BEFORE Paul was given the information he received from Christ through divine revelation.

Peter clearly understood the gospel of grace, but, according to Galatians 2, he was still ministering the the Jewish nation. That was Peter's ministry. The kingdom gospel had been set aside, but he was still a minister to the Jews.

God Bless. You so totally ROCK,GFM,...spoken like a true poet...I prefer someone paraphrase their testimony of "right division" like GFM,instead of throwing out verses at us like were having a rubber band fight. If anyone listing passages doesn't use a version thats familiar to the reader,he/she more than likely will speed read over them,reload and fire back.Football players can't co-operate unless they are all familiar with the same play. :hat

[Beth O]

You so totally ROCK,GFM,...spoken like a true poet...I prefer someone paraphrase their testimony of "right division" like GFM,instead of throwing out verses at us like were having a rubber band fight. If anyone listing passages doesn't use a version thats familiar to the reader,he/she more than likely will speed read over them,reload and fire back.Football players can't co-operate unless they are all familiar with the same play. :hat

It almost sounds as though you think we have different Bibles, not different versions??? :twitch

[Topped 3]

Hi LaMontre, glad to see you back.

I am just about to the point of just shaking my head........

Topped3, I dont see how all this is about bible versions. I use the KJV because it is easier for me, but I also check out other versions, and there really isnt a difference in meaning. There may be some differences in words used through translation, but you can always go back and check out the Strongs.

biblegateway (http://www.biblegateway.com/)
http://blueletterbible.org/
Strongs site (http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html)

I use these resources a lot to help me study. I dont use too much commentary, some commentary gets to be extra biblical adding things to it that just arent there. Sometimes I do a word search and read all the verses that contains the word to get the full meaning of what is being talked about. Very interesting results at times. When the Holy Spirit opens the word, there is nothing like it. Ok,BIH,Here's my point;If they change the WOG they change the doctrine(scribes and Bible scholars-rejecters are like Lawers and corporate attorneys..slick,smooth ,suttle,sneaky and untrustworthy...at least since 1881. Gal.2:16(KJV)"...but by faith OF Jesus Christ..." (NIV)...but by faith in Jesus Christ..."(this is not Pauline grace,this is a fabrication,a LIE) Ro.9:30(KJV)..."even the righteousness which is OF faith..." (NIV)"...a righteousness that is BY faith..."( a lie,not for Church age Gentiles under Grace only) Phil 3:9(KJV)"...but that which is of the faith OF Christ..."(NIV)"..but that which is through faith in Christ..."(another lie ,These are Gentiles ) @ Tim.3:15"...wise unto salvation THROUGH faith which is in Christ..(NIV)"...Through faith IN Christ Jesus(Gentiles are not Justified NOW by faith in Christ ,but by Faith OF Christ,JESUS' Faith,imputed unto us,no works will justify us , no faith of our own...it's Given ..we are IN Christ.

[Mechaberean]

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Sounds cut and dry to me.

[LaMontre]

Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Sounds cut and dry to me.

Precisely. There is a reason for the use of the various terms in question in this verse (By, Through).

"By" in the greek refers to the origin of the faith to which he refers; which is of course, Abraham and Israel (the circumcision) (Rom 3;2, and 9:4). And of course, it is "Through" (dia) that same faith that the Gentiles are justified. The means to their justification is, and always has been, the same (faith, Heb 11).

God will justify the uncircumcision through the same faith that originated with, and justifies the circumcision.

Remembering of course that a circumsized person who has broken the law, may as well not be circumsized at all if that's what he is relying upon for his justification (Rom 2:25).

[Mechaberean]

I believe its not the same faith, faith is Hebrews11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. This is faith, but the same faith no, nobody knew God would die on a cross I have posted before that it is even hid in first person quotes by David in his prophesying, and the Ethiopian Eunuch fresh from the temple wondered if the prophet was talking of Himself or not. Also Hebrews 11 mentions nothing of belieiving in the cross work for salavtion. No I believe Abraham believed God in what God told him; they knew God was real by His miraculous presence all through their history and His representatives the prophets,priests,and kings. Why they didn't even go to teh same destination Abraham's Bosom or Hell, we to heaven or Hell. The bible precisely says they had but foreshadows and hope in foreshadows IS NOT the same as teh real thing.

[BlessedinHim]

Abraham had belief for the Messiah who was to come. He had faith that He would definitely come. He had not seen the Messiah. This faith was counted as righteousness for him.

[Mechaberean]

actually the bible says Genesis15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2 And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.