Pauline Dispensationalism

[Mechaberean]

The deal is Lemontre you can't prove people were saved outside of israel before Acts13.

[Mechaberean]

The only thing the same about the Kingdom of heaven and God is; they are sown(preached),people accept or reject(good soil or bad),and fruit comes of it(none or some/alot). Thats it. Thats the only way they are same period.

[LaMontre]

The deal is Lemontre you can't prove people were saved outside of israel before Acts13.

Oh I can't pass up a challenge like that.

First we have to establish from scripture what constitutes being a part of the body of Christ, or better said, how do we enter into the Church according to scripture.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So to enter into the body of Christ we must be baptised in the Holy Spirit. This is our entrance into the Church.

So where do we see this first happen? Acts chapter 2, of course, right?

But we have a problem that needs to be solved here. No where in Acts chapter 2 is baptism in the Holy Spirit mentioned, even though we do have a reference to the Church.

Here is the solution, and for me, the end of the discussion:
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So, it is quite clear that Peter and the other Apostles believed that the Holy Spirit baptism to which Jesus refered (which according to Cor 12 means entry into the Church) had happened to them at the Acts 2 event.

And the same thing had also happened to the gentile audience of Acts 10.

Thus the church did indeed begin at Acts 2, and every believer after that who experience the Holy Spirit baptism was obviously saved, but more to the point was made a part of the Church by that Holy Spirit baptism.

[Topped 3]

Oh I can't pass up a challenge like that.

First we have to establish from scripture what constitutes being a part of the body of Christ, or better said, how do we enter into the Church according to scripture.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

So to enter into the body of Christ we must be baptised in the Holy Spirit. This is our entrance into the Church.

So where do we see this first happen? Acts chapter 2, of course, right?

But we have a problem that needs to be solved here. No where in Acts chapter 2 is baptism in the Holy Spirit mentioned, even though we do have a reference to the Church.

Here is the solution, and for me, the end of the discussion:
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

So, it is quite clear that Peter and the other Apostles believed that the Holy Spirit baptism to which Jesus refered (which according to Cor 12 means entry into the Church) had happened to them at the Acts 2 event.

And the same thing had also happened to the gentile audience of Acts 10.

Thus the church did indeed begin at Acts 2, and every believer after that who experience the Holy Spirit baptism was obviously saved, but more to the point was made a part of the Church by that Holy Spirit baptism. That's a weak point,firstly..."Acts11..v.6..The gentiles were considered unclean, as with certain animals by the Mosaic law,,God was reaching out to gentiles THROUGH the Jews,evidenced by the appearance of an angel to cornelius acts 10:30-32(angels appearing to Jews and Jewish Proselyte's is a sign)Cornelius prayed to God and gave alms to Israel,a requirement for Gentiles to be blessed THROUGH Israel..The signification of the vision of the sheet and animals was to show Peter that he was to stop segregating the Jews from the Gentiles concerning salvation,to provoke the Jews to Jealousy by showing salvation to the Gentiles,and to take the heat off Peter by the Jews who were questioning his conduct concerning fraternizing with Gentiles..v.10:43..."that thrugh His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive REMISSION of sins.."..v.44 .."While Peter yet spake these words,the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.."(salvation of Faith plus works just like Pentecost,only sins remitted,they could fall away...this is faith then salvation then works -vs.- Grace through faith OF Christ as Paul later preached..a distinct mystery to everyone,not forseen before till Paul .

[Mechaberean]

Yeah peter baptised him into the Jewish church through John's baptism it says so; Paul gave up baptism bhe baptised a couple and then said I have not come to baptise but to preach. In teh Jewish church those two went hand in hand.

[LaMontre]

Holy Spirit Baptism=Entry in the Church=Salvation=Case Closed

:yeah:dance2:heh

[BlessedinHim]

Yeah peter baptised him into the Jewish church through John's baptism it says so; Paul gave up baptism bhe baptised a couple and then said I have not come to baptise but to preach. In teh Jewish church those two went hand in hand.

Paul did not give up baptism.

Paul never said baptism is for naught, or baptism is not necessary.

There was a dispute. It didnt end baptism, and he didnt say he would never baptize again. He was thankful that he had only baptized the ones he did.

That is all it says.

[Topped 3]

Paul did not give up baptism.

Paul never said baptism is for naught, or baptism is not necessary.

There was a dispute. It didnt end baptism, and he didnt say he would never baptize again. He was thankful that he had only baptized the ones he did.

That is all it says. If you can plainly see,the early acts Jews and proselytes Acts1:5;Acts 10:44-48 ,in some cases received the Baptism in the Holy Ghost prior to the actual physical Baptism. The difference for them is they were required to be physically Baptized as an act of obedience and as a testimony to each other and to God that they were pursueing an ACTIVE salvation(they could still fall away)Acts 5:5. That changed with Paul ..I Cor I:17.."for Christ sent me NOT to Baptize, But to preach the Gospel.." With Paul this changed with ministering to Gentiles outside of Jewish observation ; He didn't need to Baptize ( I Cor 12:13).."For by one spirit we have all been Baptized into one body;whether we be Jews or Gentiles.." Baptism became an ordinance,NOT a requirement,because the Holy Spirit does the actual Baptizing at coversion(salvation) Paul knew this,that is why he said"I come NOT to Baptize.." As the Jewish Obedience/ works requirement was diminishing,and Grace thru faith for all was established , the the Baptism into Christ was Sufficient. :doh

[LaMontre]

I love all these arguments from silence. Such a silly way to interpret scripture.

Just because Paul did not baptize does not mean that believers under his ministry weren't being baptized. In fact, the very fact that he addresses the issue at all confirms that they were indeed being baptized. So your argument regarding baptism in water falls just as flat as all your other arguments in this thread. Belief brings salvation. Baptism in water is a confession of faith. Peter himself said so (1 Pet 3:21).

[Topped 3]

I love all these arguments from silence. Such a silly way to interpret scripture.

Just because Paul did not baptize does not mean that believers under his ministry weren't being baptized. In fact, the very fact that he addresses the issue at all confirms that they were indeed being baptized. So your argument regarding baptism in water falls just as flat as all your other arguments in this thread. Belief brings salvation. Baptism in water is a confession of faith. Peter himself said so (1 Pet 3:21). Dabbling in early Jewish church doctrine again ?(1 Peter 1:5 ).."Who are KEPT by the power of God through faith unto salvation.." that's funny,I don't see the word grace .Whose argument has fallen flat ? As I mentioned ; Baptism + Jews= requirement ;(Acts 2:38) Baptizm + Gentiles= ordinance(Rom.6:3-7) And I never said they "weren't being baptized" just that it's not necessary.Time to re-boot , your files corrupted. :preach