1 Corinthians 14:34-35

[faithandgrace]

Hi all,

Forgive me if this has been asked and addressed before...

1 Cor. 14:34-35 is often used to explain why women shouldn't be in pastoral positions, and I often use that verse myself. But recently I've started to wonder why it's only used in that particular context and why we don't take it all the way and tell women not to speak in church at all, as the verses command? The Bible says;

34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

IMO, these verses seem pretty clear cut, and I'm not quite understanding why we don't take them at face value.

I once heard an explanation that basically said that in the Corinth church, the men and women were seated on opposite sides of the building and that the women would yell across to their husbands and disturb the congregation, thus the need for this command, and it only applied to the church of Corinth. That sounds plausible, but I still don't see how it explains the command for women not to speak AT ALL.

I figure I must be missing something, perhaps the original Greek didn't literally mean speak?

Just wondering and needing a little assistance here...

Thanks! :hat

[HeIsEnough]

I figure I must be missing something, perhaps the original Greek didn't literally mean speak?

Just wondering and needing a little assistance here...

Thanks! :hat

John Gill's Exposition states it in this way. Its probably good to keep in mind how the family was ordered and operated in the Hebrew culture.


1Co 14:34 - Let your women keep silence in the churches,.... This is a restriction of, and an exception to one of the above rules, that all might prophesy; in which he would be understood of men only, and not of women; and is directed against a practice which seems to have prevailed in this church at Corinth, allowing women to preach and teach in it; and this being a disorderly practice, and what was not used in other churches, the apostle forbids and condemns, and not without reason:

for it is not permitted unto them to speak; that is, in public assemblies, in the church of God, they might not speak with tongues, nor prophesy, or preach, or teach the word. All speaking is not prohibited; they might speak their experiences to the church, or give an account of the work of God upon their souls; they might speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs; or speak as an evidence in any case at a church meeting; but not in such sort, as carried in it direction, instruction, government, and authority. It was not allowed by God that they should speak in any authoritative manner in the church; nor was it suffered in the churches of Christ; nor was it admitted of in the Jewish synagogue; there, we are told (b), the men came to teach, and the women לשמוע, "to hear": and one of their canons runs thus (c);

"a woman may not read (that is, in the law), בצבור, "in the congregation", or church, because of the honour of the congregation;''

for they thought it a dishonourable thing to a public assembly for a woman to read, though they even allowed a child to do it that was capable of it.

But they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. In Gen_3:16, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". By this the apostle would signify, that the reason why women are not to speak in the church, or to preach and teach publicly, or be concerned in the ministerial function, is, because this is an act of power, and authority; of rule and government, and so contrary to that subjection which God in his law requires of women unto men. The extraordinary instances of Deborah, Huldah, and Anna, must not be drawn into a rule or example in such cases.

[AnotherOldGuy]

1 Cor. 14:34-35 is often used to explain why women shouldn't be in pastoral positions, and I often use that verse myself.
There's a better verse for that:

(1 Tim 2:12) And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.



I figure I must be missing something, perhaps the original Greek didn't literally mean speak?
No, it means 'speak', 'talk', 'say'.

Other examples of the same exact word:

(Phil 1:14) and most of the brethren in the Lord, having become confident by my chains, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.

(1 Th 1:8) For from you the word of the Lord has sounded forth, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place. Your faith toward God has gone out, so that we do not need to say anything.

(Rom 15:18) For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ has not accomplished through me, in word and deed, to make the Gentiles obedient;

(Acts 4:20) "For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard."

(Mark 7:37) And they were astonished beyond measure, saying, "He has done all things well. He makes both the deaf to hear and the mute to speak."

[freyasfav]

Just my impression: The few women I've heard preach &/or teach in churches, I simply did not FEEL the sense of abomination, as I do with other blasphemies such as "Jesus C..." in vain, homosexual behavior okayed, etc. I think this had to do with the current culture & society in which women were uneducated & overall viewed as inferior to men. In our present society where women are schooled, work "mens'" jobs, vote, & so on, I believe God-dare I say-amends this rule. I believe he dictated SOME happenings with culture taken into account, such as OT allowing multiple wives for assuring bloodlines. Women while not sub-human were certainly viewed beneath us, & now that we view more equal-albeit man as head of house- I believe educated women are now condoned, no, used by God in formerly male-only roles. No verses to point at, just an impression I get-feel free to politely disagree.

[HeIsEnough]

Just my impression: The few women I've heard preach &/or teach in churches, I simply did not FEEL the sense of abomination, as I do with other blasphemies such as "Jesus C..." in vain, homosexual behavior okayed, etc. I think this had to do with the current culture & society in which women were uneducated & overall viewed as inferior to men. In our present society where women are schooled, work "mens'" jobs, vote, & so on, I believe God-dare I say-amends this rule. I believe he dictated SOME happenings with culture taken into account, such as OT allowing multiple wives for assuring bloodlines. Women while not sub-human were certainly viewed beneath us, & now that we view more equal-albeit man as head of house- I believe educated women are now condoned, no, used by God in formerly male-only roles. No verses to point at, just an impression I get-feel free to politely disagree.

Hmmm. I think the scriptures are far more wiser than we are when it comes to these things. I dare say our modern thought corrupts godly counsel in a few ways, and we don't always see the full reasons why they state things the way they do. I don't see the scriptures stating this issue as an 'abomination' (?), rather they present the issue as an ordered way of life. After living a while, I see the wisdom in this matter.

[fracturedInfinity]

We should be careful about trying to discern God's commands and desires using our feelings.

Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Doulos]

Hi all,

Forgive me if this has been asked and addressed before...

1 Cor. 14:34-35 is often used to explain why women shouldn't be in pastoral positions, and I often use that verse myself. But recently I've started to wonder why it's only used in that particular context and why we don't take it all the way and tell women not to speak in church at all, as the verses command? The Bible says;

34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

IMO, these verses seem pretty clear cut, and I'm not quite understanding why we don't take them at face value.

I once heard an explanation that basically said that in the Corinth church, the men and women were seated on opposite sides of the building and that the women would yell across to their husbands and disturb the congregation, thus the need for this command, and it only applied to the church of Corinth. That sounds plausible, but I still don't see how it explains the command for women not to speak AT ALL.

I figure I must be missing something, perhaps the original Greek didn't literally mean speak?

Just wondering and needing a little assistance here...

Thanks! :hat

Clearly Paul is not ordering the complete silence of women in church. Earlier in 1 Corinthians 11:5 Paul gives instruction on women wearing head coverings while praying and prophesying in church.

1 Corinthians 11:5
But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.

If Paul's intention in 1 Corinthians 14:34 was for women to not speak in church then he would be contradicting himself.

The word translated as 'speak' in verse 34 is Laleo (2980) rather than Lego (3004). The difference is that Laleo can mean to speak unintelligibly and/or without understanding while Lego necessarily means to speak as the result of thought.

Paul's concern was the disorder that apparently had crept into the Corinthian church. His command for silence then was for women not to speak meaninglessly or unnecessarily. (This is likely due to their lack of education since most women were not educated even in religious matters and their ability not only to join a religious service with men but to participate in it was a new thing...as well as some other cultural considerations.)

[Doulos]

There's a better verse for that:

(1 Tim 2:12) And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.


This verse is similar to 1 Corinthians 14:34, and like in 1 Corinthians it is speaking not of men and women in general but of husbands and wives. A woman was to maintain a aura of tranquility (not silence) and was to respect the authority of her husband.

[Kliska]

Doulos, I agree. Also, the idea carried through is that women are not to come in and "take over" if there is a man in charge, and she is not to be in authority over her own husband in such a way that diminishes his role. The verse in 1 Timothy 2:12 is often taken out of context as well, since we know that Timothy's mother and grandmother taught him the faith, and that there was at least one woman that helped teach Paul.

I have also seen an interesting case made that does make sense;

1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

40Let all things be done decently and in order.

The point being that Paul, as he does elsewhere is calling their point-of-view out and correcting it. It is possible that there is a report of women causing problems because of their actions, and the report was given to Paul that the Corinth church was not allowing women to speak at all in meetings. Paul's reaction would then be in verse 36, underlining the fact that all believers have received the good news, all believers are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and there is no more "male superiority" in the church assembly since we are all one in Christ, and that regardless of who is speaking, male or female, it should be done decently and in order.

It is also clear through various other scripture that males are to teach males how to be Godly males, and females are to teach females how to be Godly females.

[faithandgrace]

Clearly Paul is not ordering the complete silence of women in church. Earlier in 1 Corinthians 11:5 Paul gives instruction on women wearing head coverings while praying and prophesying in church.

1 Corinthians 11:5
But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved.

If Paul's intention in 1 Corinthians 14:34 was for women to not speak in church then he would be contradicting himself.

The word translated as 'speak' in verse 34 is Laleo (2980) rather than Lego (3004). The difference is that Laleo can mean to speak unintelligibly and/or without understanding while Lego necessarily means to speak as the result of thought.
Paul's concern was the disorder that apparently had crept into the Corinthian church. His command for silence then was for women not to speak meaninglessly or unnecessarily. (This is likely due to their lack of education since most women were not educated even in religious matters and their ability not only to join a religious service with men but to participate in it was a new thing...as well as some other cultural considerations.)

Ahhhh. I see.