1 Thessalonians 5:22

[Joni]

Hello everyone! This is my 1st try at contributing something to this wonderful board! Mods-if this is in the wrong place, well, you have my upmost appreciation at moving it! :lol2

I was listening to the radio this morning, don't know who he was, but he brought up a question posed to him. This guy and girl were pretty serious and committed to each other (don't know if they were engaged or not), but they live about 60 miles away from each other. Now what this guy asked, was, when he travelled to visit her on the weekends, he stays at her apartment, and that there was no sex at all between them, and wanted to know if that okay? The fellow on the radio is no, it's not okay. He quoted 1Thes. 5:22 "Abstain from all appearances of evil".

I had to stop and really think about what he said. My answer before he commented was that it was okay. I have always felt that God knows what's truly in one's heart, but after listening to the gentleman's answer, it is also important to remember that your actions speak louder than words. I hope I make sense in when I say that if we don't readily study the Bible, it's so easy to put your own spin on everyday life and forget what God commands us to do.

[ANewCreature]

What does "at her apartment" mean? Separate bedrooms? Rules about never seeing each other partly clothed or naked? People can put up barriers, but there will always be gosspiers. If we wanted to abstain from anything that would make people gossip, we would never go to colleges where they have co-ed dorms, with one gender on one floor, another on the next. Some might even gossip even if it's a co-ed campus, but separate dorms for male and female. Indeed, what if it's a male and female sibling living together! Although there might be a difference in the actions between two siblings that are very close and a boy/girlfriend in public (as long as they're not all over each other) but since I can't see that I just try to give the benefit of the doubt, period. Unless, as I said, I see them hanging all over each other.:)

The more boundaries a couple puts up, and make it clear you have those, the more likely they are abstaining from evil, in my view.

However, I see another problem which is far greater, and shows why said couple should not do it. Even if they pass the "abstaining from evil" part, they are still tempting others to do likewise. So, even if this couple *is* able to abstain from sex, another couple might see them, and - being weaker - might be led to copy them, but they will fall into the temptation and have sex. As Paul said (paraphrasing), all things are profitable, but not all things are right; we should never let our freedom be a stumbling block for others.

So, for that reason, I would say it's wrong. But, anyone can twist something and make it appear evil, even when it's not; like the co-ed college/dorm example. Thequestion I'd have is, how are they showing themselves to the world? And, even with the "abstaining from evil" part, if they're hanging all over each toher in public, if he's not clear he sleeps on the couch (saying "I just slept on her couch" rather than "at her apartment") and that they have specific rules about how they see each other, I would probably question whether they really are abstaining from the appearance of evil. A "reasonable mind" can infer they might be getting close to falling for the temptation to sin. A reasonable mind cannot infer that just becuase a person goes to a co-ed college (even leaving out the dorm) that person is having sex.

[Joni]

What does "at her apartment" mean? Separate bedrooms? Rules about never seeing each other partly clothed or naked? People can put up barriers, but there will always be gosspiers. If we wanted to abstain from anything that would make people gossip, we would never go to colleges where they have co-ed dorms, with one gender on one floor, another on the next. Some might even gossip even if it's a co-ed campus, but separate dorms for male and female. Indeed, what if it's a male and female sibling living together! Although there might be a difference in the actions between two siblings that are very close and a boy/girlfriend in public (as long as they're not all over each other) but since I can't see that I just try to give the benefit of the doubt, period. Unless, as I said, I see them hanging all over each other.:)

The more boundaries a couple puts up, and make it clear you have those, the more likely they are abstaining from evil, in my view.

However, I see another problem which is far greater, and shows why said couple should not do it. Even if they pass the "abstaining from evil" part, they are still tempting others to do likewise. So, even if this couple *is* able to abstain from sex, another couple might see them, and - being weaker - might be led to copy them, but they will fall into the temptation and have sex. As Paul said (paraphrasing), all things are profitable, but not all things are right; we should never let our freedom be a stumbling block for others.

So, for that reason, I would say it's wrong. But, anyone can twist something and make it appear evil, even when it's not; like the co-ed college/dorm example. Thequestion I'd have is, how are they showing themselves to the world? And, even with the "abstaining from evil" part, if they're hanging all over each toher in public, if he's not clear he sleeps on the couch (saying "I just slept on her couch" rather than "at her apartment") and that they have specific rules about how they see each other, I would probably question whether they really are abstaining from the appearance of evil. A "reasonable mind" can infer they might be getting close to falling for the temptation to sin. A reasonable mind cannot infer that just becuase a person goes to a co-ed college (even leaving out the dorm) that person is having sex.

Thank you for replying. :thankyou2 To me "staying at her apartment" would be like the neighbors see this guy going into the apartment and not coming out until the next morning. That's the "appearance of evil" in my opinion that gives the outward appearance to everyone that could make people think they're sleeping together, even if they're not, hence my original post. I myself had to think about this and wanted to contribute to the board to say hey, even our actions may make people think negatively on Christians. Hope that comes out right. :thumb

[His Bride]

Thank you for replying. :thankyou2 To me "staying at her apartment" would be like the neighbors see this guy going into the apartment and not coming out until the next morning. That's the "appearance of evil" in my opinion that gives the outward appearance to everyone that could make people think they're sleeping together, even if they're not, hence my original post. I myself had to think about this and wanted to contribute to the board to say hey, even our actions may make people think negatively on Christians. Hope that comes out right. :thumb

That is the absolute best answer!:thumb

[mary]

I must agree that this is an excellent answer.

We are not only to obstain from the appearance
of evil from not only our standpoint but to the
world looking on.

[Gideon]

We are called to be salt and light. If the world sees us doing the same things they do, how then can we be light?
50 years ago and man and woman would never think of spending the night together. Seperate rooms or not. You can take this one step farther. How do you dress? Jeans hanging off your butt or only half of a woman's top covered. That is also light. God does not want sacrifice, He wants obedience to His Word. It is black and white, not grey.:hug

[mary]

We are called to be salt and light. If the world sees us doing the same things they do, how then can we be light?
50 years ago and man and woman would never think of spending the night together. Seperate rooms or not. You can take this one step farther. How do you dress? Jeans hanging off your butt or only half of a woman's top covered. That is also light. God does not want sacrifice, He wants obedience to His Word. It is black and white, not grey.:hug

Amen.
And the same God
is forgiving,loving
and full of grace
and mercy.

[Zerozx]

We are called to be salt and light. If the world sees us doing the same things they do, how then can we be light?
50 years ago and man and woman would never think of spending the night together. Seperate rooms or not. You can take this one step farther. How do you dress? Jeans hanging off your butt or only half of a woman's top covered. That is also light. God does not want sacrifice, He wants obedience to His Word. It is black and white, not grey.:hug

Agreed...It seems rare to see any girls dress modestly. It's much more attractive when/if they dress modestly, instead of trying to show off their body. I'm sure some of them don't MEAN to show off anything, but it still happens. :ohno

By the way, nice contribution to RR. :wave

[IFollowJesus]

Hello everyone! This is my 1st try at contributing something to this wonderful board! Mods-if this is in the wrong place, well, you have my upmost appreciation at moving it! :lol2

I was listening to the radio this morning, don't know who he was, but he brought up a question posed to him. This guy and girl were pretty serious and committed to each other (don't know if they were engaged or not), but they live about 60 miles away from each other. Now what this guy asked, was, when he travelled to visit her on the weekends, he stays at her apartment, and that there was no sex at all between them, and wanted to know if that okay? The fellow on the radio is no, it's not okay. He quoted 1Thes. 5:22 "Abstain from all appearances of evil".

I had to stop and really think about what he said. My answer before he commented was that it was okay. I have always felt that God knows what's truly in one's heart, but after listening to the gentleman's answer, it is also important to remember that your actions speak louder than words. I hope I make sense in when I say that if we don't readily study the Bible, it's so easy to put your own spin on everyday life and forget what God commands us to do.

Abstain from all appearance of evil, 1Th 5:22. This is a good means to prevent our being deceived with false doctrines, or unsettled in our faith; for our Saviour has told us (John 7:17), If a man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God. Corrupt affections indulged in the heart, and evil practices allowed of in the life, will greatly tend to promote fatal errors in the mind; whereas purity of heart, and integrity of life, will dispose men to receive the truth in the love of it. We should therefore abstain from evil, and all appearances of evil, from sin, and that which looks like sin, leads to it, and borders upon it. He who is not shy of the appearances of sin, who shuns not the occasions of sin, and who avoids not the temptations and approaches to sin, will not long abstain from the actual commission of sin.