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dittohead conservative
February 14th, 2011, 09:56 PM
thank you Buzzard Hut.

Here is another..I quote all the verses and they respond with this...

One taken (in the rapture); the other left (behind in tribulation).

Matthew 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.

Luke 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Luke 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Luke 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

This describes the Pre Trib Rapture.



"Nope, these describe the fact that some will be saved and some will not."


and...

"
Matt 24 is comparing those who died in the flood to those who will be taken.

Luke 17 is comparing the fate of Lot's wife with those who will be taken.

Both negatives. Those who were taken died.

Doesn't sound like much of a glorious hope to me.

Personally, I am looking forward to the Resurrection.


PS: Context is my best friend when reading the New Testament. "

acceptedintheBeloved
February 14th, 2011, 10:03 PM
Matthew 24:40-42 are about those who will be "taken" in judgment at the end of the tribulation period, at the time of His Second Coming. Those who are "left" are left to enter the Millennial Kingdom in their natural bodies.

The Church will have been raptured (and given glorified bodies) at least 7 years prior to this.
This passage (and other such related passages) does not apply to the Church. Paul explains the rapture of the Church elsewhere.
It is important to remember to keep Israel and the Church distinct, in Scripture. :hat

ETA: Also, the "wedding feast" takes place AFTER His Second Coming (a "week" or "seven years" after "the wedding"), on the earth (many equate it with "the beginning of the Millennial Kingdom", as do I), and the "guests" are the trib saints.

dittohead conservative
February 14th, 2011, 10:18 PM
ME- [Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


HIM- Right. At the Judgment. The Tribulation is not God's wrath.



ME- [Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


HIM- How were the Israelites saved from God's wrath in Egypt? I don't recall them being magically lifted in the clouds...

Buzzardhut
February 14th, 2011, 10:28 PM
ME- [Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


HIM- Right. At the Judgment. The Tribulation is not God's wrath.



ME- [Rom 5:9] Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.


HIM- How were the Israelites saved from God's wrath in Egypt? I don't recall them being magically lifted in the clouds...

The tribulation is God's wrath
the bride of Christ are spared God's wrath & the Israelites are protected in the trib during God's wrath

dittohead conservative
February 14th, 2011, 10:31 PM
I WROTE- THE TRIB sure is God's wrath.

God will NOT allow the Church to go through the Tribulation Period. God wouldn't destroy the wicked in Noah's day until Noah and his family were all safely aboard the ark. Not one drop of rain fell until Noah and his family were on the ark, and God had shut the door. After wards, the rains fell and the wicked were utterly destroyed. The same is true of Lot and his family. Although Lot was a back slidden believer, he was nevertheless a "just man," a righteous man (2nd Peter 2:7,8). We read in Genesis 19:22, "Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither."

These words were spoken by the angel whom God had sent to reign down fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. No judgment could fall upon Sodom, until Lot and his family were removed. Likewise, the Church will be Translated (Raptured) away from this sin-cursed world before the Tribulation.

HE REPLIED-
Interesting thing about these examples...none of the people mentioned ever physically left the earth...God protected them while they were still here................

acceptedintheBeloved
February 14th, 2011, 10:37 PM
It might be better to compare the Church to Enoch (who was "translated that he should not see death," BEFORE the judgment of the flood) and the trib saints to Noah, preserved through the flood judgment (like in the trib), to carry on, upon the earth, afterward... (in the earthly Millennial Kingdom).

That's how I see it. :hat

Hebrews 11:5


By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Buzzardhut
February 14th, 2011, 10:38 PM
I WROTE- THE TRIB sure is God's wrath.

God will NOT allow the Church to go through the Tribulation Period. God wouldn't destroy the wicked in Noah's day until Noah and his family were all safely aboard the ark. Not one drop of rain fell until Noah and his family were on the ark, and God had shut the door. After wards, the rains fell and the wicked were utterly destroyed. The same is true of Lot and his family. Although Lot was a back slidden believer, he was nevertheless a "just man," a righteous man (2nd Peter 2:7,8). We read in Genesis 19:22, "Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither."

These words were spoken by the angel whom God had sent to reign down fire and brimstone upon Sodom and Gomorrah. No judgment could fall upon Sodom, until Lot and his family were removed. Likewise, the Church will be Translated (Raptured) away from this sin-cursed world before the Tribulation.

HE REPLIED-
Interesting thing about these examples...none of the people mentioned ever physically left the earth...God protected them while they were still here................

Noah's ark was a type of rapture, Noah and his family were delivered from God's wrath

Chris
February 14th, 2011, 10:46 PM
It might be better to compare the Church to Enoch (who was "translated that he should not see death," BEFORE the judgment of the flood) and the trib saints to Noah, preserved through the flood judgment (like in the trib), to carry on, upon the earth, afterward... (in the earthly Millennial Kingdom).

That's how I see it. :hat

Hebrews 11:5

Elijah defended God's word and was "ascended to Heaven" (by chariot or soemthing like that) as well. The main point is that God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. The church has God's righteousness imputed to them by grace thru faith.

And all the tribulation is wrath as the scroll in Revelation is a two sided scroll, which ALWAYS refers to wrath in the Bible. In the big picture, we can see crystal clear that the church will not be here during THE tribulation or last 7 years before the 2nd coming.

I find a lot of people who abandon the pre-trib rapture don't have a strong faith in what the Bible says. They are blown like a ship on the waters by the winds of uncertainty. Many see the signs around us showing that time is short and since we haven't been raptured yet, instead of trusting on God, they have started to fall away from the faith, both in Jesus and in the Bible. :tsk :sad

Chris
February 14th, 2011, 10:46 PM
Noah's ark was a type of rapture, Noah and his family were delivered from God's wrath

Yep. :preach

dittohead conservative
February 14th, 2011, 10:57 PM
ME-
Compare the Church to Enoch (who was "translated that he should not see death," BEFORE the judgment of the flood) and the trib saints to Noah, preserved through the flood judgment (like in the trib).

HIM-
How do these "trib saints" become saints if the Holy Spirit is no longer on the earth?