View Full Version : The Two Witnesses: Enoch & Elijah?
December 14th, 2008, 02:40 PM
I have heard Moses and Elijah suggested most often. However, I also think Enoch is a strong contender.
I have also heard the Apostle John idea suggested. There are a number of Christians who believe that the Apostle John never died, I have heard some suggest that he is still living somewhere on earth today. Seems a bit far-fetched but who knows?
December 14th, 2008, 05:15 PM
Moses died. I really don't think he's going to get a second death. (Heb 9:27)
December 15th, 2008, 12:12 AM
As a primary issue, I believe it will certainly be two men coming in the authority of Moses and Elijah; as a secondary issue, I believe it will be Moses and Elijah themselves.
With regard to the reference to Hebrews 9:27 where it says "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment", remember that everyone raised from the dead in the Bible died a second time. Elijah raised someone, Elisha's bones raised someone, Jesus raised some, Peter raised Dorcas/Tabitha, and Paul raised the young man who fell asleep out of the window. Every last one of these who were raised died a second time. The verse in Hebrews is typical, not absolute, and exceptions plainly exist to the general rule.
I believe the Rapture immediately precedes the Tribulation period, and I also believe the 1260 days time span of the ministry of the Two Witnesses (Rev 11:3) begins the very moment the Trib begins. There are 144,000 Jews who get saved (Rev 7). It seems to me that the Two Witnesses appear immediately after the start of the Trib, and in the twin voices of the Law and the Prophets (the two authorities recognized by the Jews) being spoken from the actual Moses and actual Elijah, will guide modern days sons of Israel to faith in Jesus. Then 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes go on and preach Jesus to the Gentiles around the world, while the Two Witnesses preach Jesus to the rest of the sons and daughters of Israel.
This, by the way, is another proof of the Rapture being Pre-Trib. The Church was given the assignment to preach Jesus:
Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
If the Church were still on Earth during the Tribulation, why is God using the Jews to do it, and why do we not see even a whisper of the Church doing it? The fact that God has commissioned the sons of Israel to preach Jesus points irrefutably to the fact that He has done so because the Church simply is no longer present on Earth to fulfill the Great Commission anymore, and somebody else needs to continue doing it.
December 15th, 2008, 06:38 AM
The two witnesses will definitely not be Moses and Elijah though they will perform similar miracles the reason is because these ones were not greater than John the baptist and the least in the klingdom is greater than John the baptist and much greater than Elijah and Moses.Definitely God will use the greater at this point in time.
December 15th, 2008, 09:07 AM
The two witnesses will definitely not be Moses and Elijah though they will perform similar miracles the reason is because these ones were not greater than John the Baptist and the least in the kingdom is greater than John the Baptist and much greater than Elijah and Moses. Definitely God will use the greater at this point in time.
Well, now, take another look at that thought, for I don't think that even applies. :thinking Remember, Jesus was talking about the Church, so these words are about the least in the kingdom as represented by the Church. But! The Church is no longer on Earth anymore at that time, for the Rapture has snatched every last believer off terra firma.
So, who can the Two Witnesses be? Let's look at the possibilities. As I see it, there are only two logical possibilities.
The first is that these Two Witnesses are some Johnny-come-lately regular humans who somehow get saved (even though there is no one left on Earth to witness to them, because all believers are gone). Of course, these two would have to be descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, because they represent the highest authority in the twin arms of Jewish thought: the Law and the Prophets. They would have to know all about Jesus and other essential salvation and prophetic doctrine. They’re going to get saved and get all that in a moment? God COULD imbue them with that in a microsecond, but it doesn’t match anything in the Bible on how God teaches men. Jesus taught His disciples over 3 years. Even Paul learned things over several years by direct revelation from Jesus. Remember that the time span of the ministry of the Two Witnesses? They minister for the first 1260 days, so there is literally no time available to be about learning these things, even if they did learn by watching tapes/DVDs or reading books. Even if God gave them divine revelation, even that takes time here on Earth (like Paul getting it from Jesus over several years). Since they need to already be full of knowledge the moment the Trib begins because they need to begin their ministry IMMEDIATELY at that point in time, it strikes me as, if not impossible, at least highly improbable.
The second is that the Two Witnesses really ARE Moses and Elijah, who are already prepped in Heaven and know everything they need to know. They’re old pros at this sort of thing, don’t you know?
So, the Two Witnesses being Moses and Elijah is fine with me. God can raise Moses to life without it being a resurrection kind of raising. (By that, I mean a bringing back to life in to a mortal body that will be able to die once again).
But, who these two men are, specifically, is not as important as what they represent. Picture the scene on Earth at that point.
The Rapture has happened. Every born-again believer in Jesus who had already passed away in death, is raised in a resurrection body that is perfect and immortal. Likewise, every believer who is yet alive, gets the same transformation, except they don't have to die first, but go directly from mortal to immortal. The Time of the Gentiles has been fuflilled. God has now shifted back to using the Jews as a witness to the nations. There are now seven years left on God's prophetic timeclock, and the clock is ticking.
There is no longer any true believer on Earth. God does not leave Himself without a witness, so He brings onto the Earth (probably in that same hour), two major forces of evangelism. To the Jews, He sends these prophesied Two Witnesses.
They demonstrate miracles that are, to the Jews, representations of the twin Authorities they acknowledge: the Law and the Prophets. Moses epitimizes the Law, so one Prophet does miracles that are clearly like those of Moses. Elijah epitimizes the Prophets, so the second Prophet does miracles like those of Elijah. The modern Jews will be brought face to face with a testimony by the Law and the Prophets that Jesus Christ IS the Messiah! Many in God's people Israel will be saved by a new faith in Messiah Jesus.
The second major evangelism force will be 144,000 male Jews, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes, who will go out to share a testimony about Jesus Christ to the Gentile nations. Many in the Gentile nations will be saved.
It will be the seven most tumultuous years ever faced by mankind. Not merely millions, but billions, will die, slain by nuclear war and direct Divine judgment. Me, I'm glad I won't be here for the whole shooting match.
December 15th, 2008, 06:25 PM
My vote are for elijah and paul.
December 15th, 2008, 11:41 PM
Paul?? I hope you're just being silly, not serious.
saved by Grace
December 16th, 2008, 12:47 PM
Those in the rapture never die, or come back to die, why would Enoch have to come back to die???
Enoch was a model for the rapture,Noah was the model for the tribulation.God gave us a sneak preview so to speak.
December 16th, 2008, 03:56 PM
The identity of the 2 witnesses is unknown.
saved by Grace
December 17th, 2008, 01:36 AM
the transfiguration on the mount as described in Luke 9:27-36
But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”
28 Now it came to pass, about eight days after these sayings, that He took Peter, John, and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 As He prayed, the appearance of His face was altered, and His robe became white and glistening. 30 And behold, two men talked with Him, who were Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of His decease which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 But Peter and those with him were heavy with sleep; and when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men who stood with Him. 33 Then it happened, as they were parting from Him, that Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good for us to be here; and let us make three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said.
34 While he was saying this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were fearful as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My beloved Son.[b] Hear Him!” 36 When the voice had ceased, Jesus was found alone. But they kept quiet, and told no one in those days any of the things they had seen.
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