The Two Witnesses: Enoch & Elijah?

[mom4Yehoshua]

I agree with the article from the lionlamb ministry posted by Lucid:


Still, I believe the two most likely candidates are Enoch and Elijah. Both were men of righteousness who were raptured to Heaven. Neither experienced death. Both were prophets, and one was a Gentile (Enoch) and the other was a Jew (Elijah).

Every man must suffer death once, so maybe, this is their ministry...in the near future, during the tribulation. :idunno


Hebrew 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

It makes sense to me, especially with all those neat scriptures you eluded to Lucid. :D

[bek1]

I believe the key verse in understanding this passage is going back a few chapters to Matthew 11 the key verses being verse 13-14. "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John. And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come." The kingdom is being offered to Israel, which we know they reject at this time...had it been the time they would believe and recieve the Kingdom, John would of been Elijah. (which God foreknew they would reject) Therefore, when the kingdom is offered again to Israel (during the tribulation) at which time we know they finally believe and recieve it, I think it will actually be Elijah at that time.

[tweety]

The consensus so far agrees Jesus is speaking of two persons, John the Baptist who “has already come” and another person who “truly shall first come.” Jesus includes both the historical and future Elijah in his answer to his disciples when they asked why “Elijah must come first” before the day of the Lord (Mal. 4:5). I feel Jesus is associating John the Baptist with the future person who comes in the spirit of Elijah, the future person might have some things in common with John the Baptist.

Some of you believe the future Elijah will be one of the two witnesses who prophesy 1,260 days in the Tribulation, I have a problem with this for two reasons. Like John the Baptist, the future Elijah “must come first” before the day of the Lord; the two witnesses prophesy during the Tribulation which is in that day.

The mission of the future Elijah is different from the two witnesses, he “restores all things.” I like the way the Jerusalem Bible has it: 17:11 - “True,” he replied, “Elijah is to come to see that everything is once more as it should be.”

The ministry of the two is judgment: Rev. 11:6 - These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.


Carol1948
Maybe Elijah will restore "all things" in the new Millennial temple and/or have a major role in the temple forever I really think God will restore all things for the Millennium, a person would not be given that power. God’s presence will dwell in the Millennial temple and a descendant of David will rule over his people.

What was John the Baptist like, what was his purpose and when and how long did he serve as prophet in the first century?

What would David Reagan, Jack Kelly or other scholars have to say about Scripture calling for another person coming in the spirit of Elijah? Anybody wish to ask them and let us know their reaction? I’m sure their response will be negative.

[ngraham]

I agree with the article from the lionlamb ministry posted by Lucid:



Every man must suffer death once, so maybe, this is their ministry...in the near future, during the tribulation. :idunno



It makes sense to me, especially with all those neat scriptures you eluded to Lucid. :D

Hi Leslie :wave
I used to think that the 2 witnesses would be Elijah and Enoch and for this reason: Hebrews 9:27.
Elijah is a given. Malachi 4:5-6~ Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse.
But any other time someone mentioned anyone but Enoch as the 2nd witness, I wouldn't even consider it. "It's appointed unto man once to die, and then the judgment." and Enoch hadn't died. But... (and there's always a butt) Lazarus didn't die once, Jarius' daughter didn't die just one time, many were resurrected after Jesus' resurrection as witnesses, so they had to die again. We're going to be raptured, which means Lord willing, none of us will have died before we get to heaven. So in my mind, that kind of nullifies Hebrews 9:27 as a reason that Enoch is one of the 2 witnesses. That's not to say that Enoch won't be one of the 2 witnesses, but the more I hear, the more I understand that if Enoch isn't the 2nd witness, it will not have done an injustice to Hebrews 9:27.

[kjlistrom]

An interesting verse to me is this one.

Luk 13:33
Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the [day] following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

Elijah and Moses were both outside of Jerusalem, so I've always thought that the two Witnesses would be them so they could fulfill what Jesus said here.

[tweety]

Luke 13:33b - “for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem”

I was not familiar with this verse until you brought it up. I can see why you associate the two witnesses with this verse for they will die on the streets of Jerusalem in the Tribulation.

I thought it might pertain to Jesus since he was a prophet, but he was crucified outside the city walls.

The Wycliffe Bible Commentary has: “His reply to the Pharisees meant that he was endangered not by Herod’s threats, but by the hostility of their own city.”

Herod resided in Jerusalem as did the Jews, but Jesus was not endangered by him. He was endangered by God’s own people, it was his own flesh and blood living in Jerusalem who turned against him.

Made me think of Mt. 23:31 - “So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.”

Maybe Luke 13:33 implies Judaic prophets did not die from Gentiles, but from their own people in Jerusalem who were descendants of those who murdered the prophets.

That’s the best I can do, maybe someone else will contribute.

[Jackmf]

Were there any prophets who weren't Jewish in the OT? I kinda always thought that one of the witnesses may be a Christian and the other Jewish. I hope i asked that right.

[kjlistrom]

Were there any prophets who weren't Jewish in the OT? I kinda always thought that one of the witnesses may be a Christian and the other Jewish. I hope i asked that right.
It's Jacob's Trouble not the Church's as the Church is gone. It's Daniel's 70th week for his people. IMO both witnesses will be Jewish, as they will be witnessing to the 2 /3rds of Jews that are decieved by the Anti-Christ.

[tweety]

John the Baptist was one strange dude, he lived in solitude in the wilderness secluded from society and its conveniences. He wore camel’s hair and survived off the land eating locusts and wild honey. He announced the coming of the kingdom of God and prepared the way for Israel’s Messiah shortly before Jesus began his ministry.

John’s parents were old when he was born six months before Jesus was, John’s parents might have died by the time he entered the wilderness as a young teenager. The wilderness included not only the wild rocky region W of the Dead Sea but also the lower region of the Jordan Valley. I estimate his time in the wilderness was 25-27 years till the day of his manifestation to Israel (Lk. 1:80). He began baptizing people several months prior his baptism of Jesus the summer of A.D. 29, in the 15th year of Tiberius Caesar (A.D. 9-28 to 9-29; Lk. 3:1, 23). He was beheaded by Herod about a year and a half before Christ’s crucifixion April 3, 33. The length of John’s ministry was short, about 2.5 years.

Of the future person coming in the spirit of Elijah we know nothing, will this person exhibit similar traits or be totally different than John the Baptist? What age will the person be when he appears publicly, middle age like John or near the end of the 70 generation that began in 1948? How many years before the day of the Lord will this person appear? And the person’s demeanor, personality and physical features?

I strongly feel the future Elijah will be a man, as were the OT prophets, John the Baptist and the Apostles. He will appear to the church shortly before the Tribulation, similar to John's appearance to Israel shortly before Christ’s ministry of 3.5 years. I wonder to what degree will the church oppose the future Elijah. Then again, they might accept him by faith.

Malachi’s prophecy on the coming of Elijah (4:5-6) says the prophet “will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.” It appears to me only half of this prophecy, the turning of the fathers to their children, was fulfilled in John, the other half of children turning to the fathers will be fulfilled by the message coming from the future Elijah. Luke 1:17 quotes the first half of Malachi’s prophecy:

Lk. 1:17 NIV
And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous-----to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

The second half of Malachi’s prophecy is omitted and replaced with people getting ready for the Lord. Getting ready for the Lord was not fulfilled in the 1st century Jews, they were not ready for Jesus, instead they rejected and crucified him. Could this readiness be fulfilled by the future Elijah and his message to the church? As born again Christians, we have always been prepared for the Lord return, will his message “put us in the proper condition or state” for his return?

As the result of Israel rejecting John’s message and their Messiah the land was struck with a curse, the invasion of Israel and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.

America will reject Elijah’s message and will continue rejecting Jesus as Savior, will our land be struck by a similar curse?

[Buzzardhut]

Have you reacted to something astounding somebody told you by saying WHAT! That’s how I reacted to a nugget I found in Scripture that Scholars have failed to see. I’d like your opinion on it.

Mt. 17:10-12 The disciples asked him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but………………..

This is a reference to John the Baptist who came in the spirit of the OT Elijah. I see two persons coming in the spirit of Elijah, John in the past and another person in the future before the day of the Lord.
many scholars have seen it and commented on it
restore all things means to put back together- reorganize, the original Elijah brought back true conceptions about the coming Messiah. He straightened out right conceptions about who God is because the Israelites lost sight of Him.

John the Baptist did the same as well, he declared to the Jews that the lamb of God has arrived and to listen to Him.

Jesus also came to set right what the Jews created in their apostate religion of Judaism, (though His main goal was to die for man's sin, this was His mission agenda - to fulfill the law - die for sin - and to set right what is wrong) this is heard throughout many of His discussions and sermons to Israel.

This is the same mission the 2 witnesses of Revelation set out to do - to declare the one true God and the way of salvation through Jesus - to the apostate church and followers of the Antichrist.

They will be heard, rejected, and killed, just like John the baptist and Jesus.

Jesus completes the ministry of Elijah at His glorious appearing. Only Jesus is successful in restoring all things, it will be accomplished at His second coming.


John the Baptist was one strange dude, he lived in solitude in the wilderness secluded from society and its conveniences. He wore camel’s hair and survived off the land eating locusts and wild honey. He announced the coming of the kingdom of God and prepared the way for Israel’s Messiah shortly before Jesus began his ministry.he was not of the ways of the world


Of the future person coming in the spirit of Elijah we know nothing, will this person exhibit similar traits or be totally different than John the Baptist? What age will the person be when he appears publicly, middle age like John or near the end of the 70 generation that began in 1948? How many years before the day of the Lord will this person appear? And the person’s demeanor, personality and physical features? not really relevant to his mission


I strongly feel the future Elijah will be a man, as were the OT prophets, John the Baptist and the Apostles. He will appear to the church shortly before the Tribulation, similar to John's appearance to Israel shortly before Christ’s ministry of 3.5 years. I wonder to what degree will the church oppose the future Elijah. Then again, they might accept him by faith. the 2 witnesses are during the tribulation


Malachi’s prophecy on the coming of Elijah (4:5-6) says the prophet “will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.” It appears to me only half of this prophecy, the turning of the fathers to their children, was fulfilled in John, the other half of children turning to the fathers will be fulfilled by the message coming from the future Elijah. Luke 1:17 quotes the first half of Malachi’s prophecy:

Lk. 1:17 NIV
And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous-----to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

The second half of Malachi’s prophecy is omitted and replaced with people getting ready for the Lord. Getting ready for the Lord was not fulfilled in the 1st century Jews, they were not ready for Jesus, instead they rejected and crucified him. Could this readiness be fulfilled by the future Elijah and his message to the church? As born again Christians, we have always been prepared for the Lord return, will his message “put us in the proper condition or state” for his return?some will get saved as a result of their preaching


As the result of Israel rejecting John’s message and their Messiah the land was struck with a curse, the invasion of Israel and the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans.
America will reject Elijah’s message and will continue rejecting Jesus as Savior, will our land be struck by a similar curse?the world rejects the 2 witnesses, not just America

http://www.gotquestions.org/two-witnesses.html


(2) Enoch and Elijah are seen as possibilities for the two witnesses because they are the two individuals whom God has taken to heaven apart from experiencing death (Genesis 5:23; 2 Kings 2:11). The fact that neither Enoch or Elijah have experienced death seems to qualify them to experience death and resurrection, as the two witnesses experience (Revelation 11:7-12). Proponents of this view claim that Hebrews 9:27 (all men die once) disqualifies Moses from being one of the two witnesses, as Moses has died once already (Deuteronomy 34:5). However, there are several others in the Bible who died twice—e.g., Lazarus, Dorcas, and the daughter of the synagogue ruler—so there is really no reason why Moses should be eliminated on this basis.