The Two Witnesses: Enoch & Elijah?

[Trust&Obey]

or is it possible that the Raptured Church is Elijah in this time. Those who prepare the way for Yeshua and proclaim His coming could certainly be said to be acting "in the Spirit of Elijah" and eventually be "caught up" just as the great prophet was...? Just as the Beast is not one, but many; a collective group. so may be the Elijah of The Second Coming?

Your explanation seems reasonable on one level, but when you look at the ministry of Elijah it was to Israel. John the Baptist's ministry was to Israel. Elijah's future purpose is to turn Israel around so they will accept the Messiah this time. In fact, they not only have to accept Jesus as their Messiah, they have to call for Him to return. Leviticus 26:40-42; Hosea 5:15; Zechariah 12:10; Matthew 23:39. The "iniquity" in these verses is singular and refers to their rejection of Jesus as Messiah during His first coming.

Scripture says they will call on the Lord as a nation 3 days before the 2nd coming. This is found in Hosea 6:1-3. Other related scriptures are: Isaiah 64 Psalm 80 (note especially Psalm 8:16-19).

The Church has certainly been a light to the world. Through it many Jews have been saved. However, Israel as a nation continues to reject the Church and Jesus because their religious leaders do, their history with so-called Christians and their own rebellion. God will speak to them through the prophet Elijah, the 144,000 witnesses, the Two Witnesses and finally the angels mentioned in Revelation that give one last gospel message to the whole world. With the exception of the angels, all are Jews. I think that is significant.

Final note - God will of course, also speak to Israel through His Word and the many circumstances and prophecy that will be fulfilled.

[Trust&Obey]

I will be heading for 2 more sessions with Dr. Fruchtenbaum this afternoon and evening in about an hour. Any pressing questions to ask?

[Word]

The question is when the Day of the Lord actually starts. That is the watershed moment that determines one's belief on the Rapture and so many other things in the end times.

Word

[Trust&Obey]

The question is when the Day of the Lord actually starts. That is the watershed moment that determines one's belief on the Rapture and so many other things in the end times.

Word

The rapture is imminent, which means it can happen at any time. The tribulation begins with the covenant or as pointed out earlier, the strengthening of the covenant. They are two separate things. A close study of the scriptures indicates that the rapture will happen before the tribulation.

Just a gentle word of caution - this is a pre-trib board.

[Caver]

Hello Caver :heythere
Welcome your input. I don't see it as nit-picking - I'm certainly a student of the Word and quite willing to let scripture correct my thinking - not the other way around.

There is one comment I can make about Daniel 9:27 where the covenant is referred to as a "firm covenant" (NAS) or "confirm the covenant" (KJV) that is established between the AC and Israel. The Hebrew word for "firm" can be interpreted as you have done or that it is a "strong" covenant, not necessarily to renew an existing covenant, but to make an original one that contains strong guarantees. The Hebrew word for "confirm" is defined as "to prevail, have strength or be mighty".

Another thing about the covenant can be found in Daniel 9:25a which says this decree (or covenant) will concern restoring and rebuilding Jerusalem. Due to the subject of the covenant, it seems likely that it will be a new covenant or certainly a MUCH stronger covenant that's purpose is to rebuild Jerusalem. My opinion is that this covenant will include issues concerning the Temple as well.

We also know the covenant itself will be for 7 years.

Back to the subject of Elijah and the two witnesses. I challenge anyone (in a friendly way!) to show me a scripture that clearly identifies Elijah as one of the two witnesses. I believe that the Bible is silent on this subject. There is much speculation on Elijah and Enoch because they did not die physically. Again there is speculation on Elijah and Moses because they were at the transfiguration of Jesus (and we don't know where Moses' bones are, except that Michael took them somewhere) and also because the miracles of the Two Witnesses are the same as these two individual's. However, because it is speculation rather than scripture, I think it is best not to focus on the "who". In a previous post, I noted that both Elijah and Moses are now in their glorified bodies.

Now in the case of Malachi 4:5-6, it clearly states that Elijah will come back and that it will be "before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD."

Got to go to work. Have a good day!

Thank You! And this evening I am a little better versed than I was this morning, thanks to your research.

Again, thank you for a well researched nit. :nod

[Lynn]

I believe Elijah will be one of the 2 Witnesses, the other one is possibly Enoch... as he is the only prophet aside from Elijah that was taken alive by God.

:thumb I was waiting for someone to mention Enoch. Some of the Messianic believers think that the two witnesses will be Elijah and Enoch, due to the fact that they are the only two prophets who never actually died.

[waiting1]

:yeah
The problem I see with that is that the Church has always believed in Jesus and spoke His word. We have no need for Elijah to come. We need no signs and wonders. The Holy Spirit in us is proof of our salvation. For us, the Messiah came the first time many years ago, and we have believed since. We are to be spared from the wrath of the tribulation, and in fact, we might actually hinder it. God did not appoint the Church to wrath, the wrath that will consume the planet in His 21 judgements during the tribulation. So many praying and believing Christians in unison would definitely reach God's ears, and the anti-christ couldn't even be revealed. The anti-christ needs a christian-less world to manifest himself to the global media, and that's exactly what he'll get after the rapture. Then it's up to the tribulation saints to fight for Christ until the end of the 7 years. That is my understanding of it.


Right on Not Perfect, But Forgiven :thumb:yeah That is what will happen and the fire they will spew from thier mouths against those who harm them will be so strong it will REDUCE THEM TO ASHES! Which shows you why only the a/c is "allowed" to kill them as well to strengthen his deception. But Imagine how frightening it will be to see them come to life on satellite TV and rise to Heaven starting the 3 1/2 years of Hell on Earth!

[LAURIEH]

I think there is a small misunderstanding here :). Elijah will come after we are gone, during the "mild" portion of the Tribulation...the first 3 1/2 years and a short time after the peace agreement is confirmed by AC. They will witness to the remaining church of Laodicean's (the ones who weren't hot or cold, but lukewarm and didn't repent), the remaining Jews on the earth, and the whole world. The other witness is believed to be Moses because he was the other great Jewish prophet and the Bible does not mention his physical death either. Hope this helps! :thumb



The way I understand it, when we are taken up with our Lord, God will send 2 witnesses [Elijah and probably Moses since they were with Lord Jesus at the Mount of Transfiguration ] to preach the gospel for 3 1/2 years. At the midpoint of the tribulation, the AC will kill them and their bodies will lie in the street for 3 1/2 days . Then the breath of life from God will come into them and they will be taken up to heaven as the whole world watches on TV. Rev 11:7-12
The 144,000 Jewish witnesses will also be preaching the gospel so there is no reason for us to be here during the 70th week of Daniel.
Just my 2 cents God bless..
Our God is an awesome God.

[BlessedAssurance]

Ok, we've been discussing the false prophet and AC, now let's talk witnesses.

Recently there was discussion that maybe the witnesses would be those who never died. They went on to suggest Moses and Elijah. Moses did die, however, and his bones were taken to Heaven by Michael. I wonder if it will be Elijah and Enoch. Or John the Baptist.

Again, what do you think?

[CharlotteMc]

I have been taught that it will be Elijah and Enoch because these are the two that never died.