Church of God a cult?

[CountryBumpkin]

Both...I believed it then just as the Church did, and I believe it now.

Why?

Because it sounds like works based salvation which is wrong and there would be a danger of casting aside the grace of God.
Abraham Booth said this: "Let the reader, therefore, carefully remember, that grace is either absolutely free, or it is not at all: and, that he who professes to look for salvation by grace, either believes in his heart to be saved entirely by it, or he acts inconsistently in affairs of the greatest importance."

To say that we need to do anything before we can be saved is saying that God's free gift of salvation is not free after all but is based on merit. Yet salvation cannot be earned by one's merits otherwise grace is no more grace.

[LindaLee]

oh...OH...You guys misunderstood totally what I was saying... I was clarifying the statement that was made because of the original statement that said the WWCG said we believed we had to keep the saturday sabbath and the Levitical Feasts to be saved.

I clarified it and also mentioned that once the full understanding of Grace had been understood the Church changed its whole viewpoint on everything. But it never believed you had to keep the Sabbath and the the Feasts days to be saved. That is an lie. It always believed you had to accept Christ, repent of your sins, and be baptized. That is scriptural. To say it isn't is wrong.

Salvation IS a free gift....you can't earn a gift...but you have to believe on the name of Jesus, repent (confess your sins), and be baptized, and then have the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit.

What is UNscriptural about that?

[CountryBumpkin]

I am sorry if I misunderstood you, LindaLee. I suppose I am asking you if you believe that a person can be saved without being baptised or having hands layed on them.

[LindaLee]

I am sorry if I misunderstood you, LindaLee. I suppose I am asking you if you believe that a person can be saved without being baptised or having hands layed on them.
Yes I do, but I still say that to be baptized is ideal since Christ gave it as an example for all of us to do. One may not be able to physically be baptized due to sickness or some physical handicap or something, but it should be done if at all possible. If it can't be done, it doesn't make them any less a Christian...but they should, IF possible, be baptized.

We can still receive the Holy Spirit without the Laying on of Hands. Laying on of Hands is symbolic and signifies the Holy Spirit descending "like a Dove" upon and into ones mind.

[gt40]

Hi all, I recieved a free book titled "2008 Gods Final Witness" written by Ronald Weinland he is a minister with the church of god, HE CLAIMS TO BE ONE OF THE 2 END DAY WITNESSES FROM GOD. I`m sorry my brothers and sisters but that sect is most definatly a CULT. Keep looking up.

[LindaLee]

If you research this out, Ronald Weinland is NO longer a minister with the Worldwide Church of God, of which this post is about. He is of the following:

Ronald Weinland was a minister in the WCG, then a minister in the United Church of God (UCG), but a number of years ago declared himself a prophet--he did that many years after the Philadelphia Church of God's Gerald Flurry did the same. If he has much of a following, I simply have not encountered it (PCG is many times CG-PKG's size).

I personally do not consider that Ron Weinland (or Gerald Flurry for that matter) is a prophet of God. In 2006, Ronald Weinland publicly declared he was one of the two witnesses of the Book of Revelation.

Ronald Weinland now leads the Church of God, Preparing for the Kingdom of God (CG-PKG), a group he formed.

Please do not confuse who is with whom...as it DOES make a difference!

[A BELIEVER]

READ THIS http://www.raptureready.com/rr-apologetics.html

[A BELIEVER]

"I am sorry if I misunderstood you, LindaLee. I suppose I am asking you if you believe that a person can be saved without being baptized or having hands layed on them."


Yes you can be baptized in any place, if you don't believe Jesus is the son of God, that Jesus died for all of mankind's sins and his father rose him from the death. To show that we the will over come death and have eternal life. You are not saved. If you are saved you should be baptized, but being baptize alone will not save you or laying on hands.

[ImHis]

from www.biblelineministries.com - Dr. Hank Lindstrom
Handbook of Personal Evangelism by Dr. A. Ray Stanford
Chapter IX

Water Baptism

The Roman Catholic Church, the Church of Christ, even some Lutheran churches, and a few Baptist churches teach that a person must be water baptized (as well as have faith in Christ) or he cannot be saved. As a soulwinner, you should know what the Bible says on the matter and how to answer this "objection" to trusting Christ alone for salvation.
THE MEANING OF BAPTISM

In order to understand the Scriptural teaching regarding baptism, you must know what the word means. The Greek words translated "baptize" and "baptism" are "baptizo," "baptisma," and "baptismos." Even if you are not a linguist, you can see from the above that the word "baptize" is not really a TRANSLATION of "baptizo" at all. The translators simply replaced the "o" with an "e." This is called a TRANSLITERATION not a translation, because in true translation work the meaning of the word is carried over from one language into another. In the case of the word "baptize" or "baptism" this was not done.

The result of this is that every time someone reads or hears about baptism, he automatically thinks it must mean WATER baptism. So, when such a person reads in Acts 2:38, for instance, "Repent and be baptized . . . for the remission of sins," he erroneously concludes that one must be dipped in water to be saved . . . because the verse does say you have to be baptized to receive God's forgiveness. Much harm and confusion has resulted from not understanding the real meaning of baptism. It means "to whelm (engulf or cover) and to cleanse." When Scripture refers to WATER baptism the context ALWAYS makes this clear. When water is not mentioned in connection with baptism, we need to use utmost care in our study of the passage so that we will recognize what kind of "baptism" (cleansing or whelming) is being spoken of.

KINDS OF BAPTISMS IN SCRIPTURE

There are at least six different kinds of baptisms spoken of in the Bible:

(1) The baptism of John (Matthew 21:25),
(2) The baptism of repentance (Mark 1:4),
(3) Baptism or cleansing into death (Romans 6:4),
(4) Baptism in water (Matthew 3:11),
(5) Baptism in the Spirit (Matthew 3:11; I Corinthians 12:13 ), and
(6) Baptism unto Moses (I Corinthians 10:2).

The above is sufficient to cause us to think twice before assuming that baptism must always refer to water.

HOW TO WITNESS TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN WATER BAPTISM FOR SALVATION

(1) As is true in most witnessing situations, the issue is "grace versus works" (water baptism). Use Ephesians 2:8, 9 or Romans 4:5.

(2) Instead of arguing over "baptism" passages, give the plan of salvation, emphasizing clear salvation verses like John 6:47. It is necessary to interpret unclear verses by clear verses, and never the other way around.

(3) Ask questions about the salvation verses so the meaning will become crystal clear to the person. For instance: "Who has everlasting life, according to John 6:47?" Answer: "He who BELIEVES on Christ." Question: "Well, if you HAVE everlasting life by trusting in Christ as your Saviour, what more do you need?" Answer: "Nothing!"

Water baptism doesn't help you to get saved. It has nothing to do with your salvation.

(4) Often people who believe in water baptism for salvation also think other "works" are necessary for salvation as well. They say there are other conditions for salvation besides belief, and you have to read the entire Bible to find out what they are. To answer this type of objection, simply turn to Bible examples where unbelievers were told exactly what to do to be saved: Christ told Nicodemus just to believe and receive everlasting life (John 3:16 - 18). Paul told the Philippian jailor just to believe and be saved (Acts 16:30, 31). Paul told the Jews just to believe and receive forgiveness of all sin (Acts 13:26, 38, 39).

None of these people mentioned above had the whole Bible to go through. They wanted to be saved then and there (especially the Philippian jailor who was about to commit suicide). Do you think Paul or Jesus told them only PART of what they had to do to be saved? Half a truth, in this case especially, would certainly be a lie! Would you, yourself, be that careless and heartless? What could be more clear than "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou SHALT BE SAVED!"

The thief on the cross didn't come down and get water baptized, but he went to heaven. (Heaven and paradise are the same place according to II Cor. 12:1 - 4). Paul thanked God that he didn't baptize very many people (I Cor. 1:11 21). If water baptism were necessary for salvation, then Paul would be thanking God he didn't see that many were saved! Unthinkable!

Not only that, but Christ never baptized anyone with water. If water baptism were necessary for salvation, then Christ withheld from those He dealt with, salvation. But He came to "seek and to SAVE!"

******************************************
For everyone who says, my friend is this, my aunt & whole family are that, remember they may be the sweetest, church-going-est person in the world, if they don't have salvation right, they will not see the kingdom of heaven.

We who are saved are called to witness to all we know, ask them questions and make sure that they know that they are saved.

My dear mother believed that she must live right and trust Christ to become saved. I had to convince her that the work is done completely by Christ and none by her. She must trust Christ alone for salvation, she did and a few months later she was gone. I'm glad I had that conversation with her and not just assuming that since she's my dear, sweet church-raised mom that she had it right.

Jesus said that one could not become His disciple unless they were willing to forsake mother, father, etc and follow him. Hanging on to traditional, non-Biblicaly based interpretations won't do.

When the man told Jesus he had to go bury his father, Jesus told him the same thing. "Let the (spiritually) dead bury the dead."

Lets get back to the roots of what salvation is and quit getting hung up on denominations. I'm this...I'm that...my whole family is this....we've always been that....I'm 4th generation this...Don't labels seem like a devisive plot by satan?

I am a Christian, I belong to Christ. Christ-ian. I dont care what I was raised or what "religion" my family or friends are or claim to be. (do a study on the word "religion". *re*-to do again *ligio*-to bind: religion is MAN'S attempt to retie the broken relationship with God. God is the only one who can and did mend that relationship and He did so by sending His Son.)

For all who are easily offended, this Christian life requires more of you. People are being lost, we cannot afford to be offended.

[true2yeshua]

As a cessasionist, I believe scripture demonstrates that the 'gift of tongues' ceased in Acts. Even in the Bible accounts it happened very infrequently as we are given few accounts. We all know the story, our Lord admonished the disciples to remain in Jerusalem until He sent the Helper. Immediately after the wind in the upper room, the flames of fire hovered above their heads and each began to speak in foreign languages. It astounded those in the courtyard below who heard and when the disciples came down amongst the crowds people were amazed to hear uneducated Galileans speaking in their native tongues.

The Holy Spirit did things like this to grant authenticity, and power, to the ministry of the first century church. While our God is the same yesterday, today and forever this gift is so abused today that it has rendered those without the Body to laugh it to scorn. A bizarre experience at a church has confirmed this for me. Contrastly, there are those who claim 'tongues' as a private 'prayer language' when they are overwought and unable to speak they claim the Holy Spirit speaks for them, but this is done in private. We are taught that He intercedes before the Father day and night, but whether or not this is what people are referring to I can't say. During my bizarre experience several years ago, three of us were praying for me, immediately following church service, and one of the women began babbling (there was no hint of language to it, foreign languages do have order) and it creeped me out beyond words my skin literally crawled and my eyes snapped open. Quite startling as never before have I had the urge to run away while praying to Father God. That aside, this 'tongues' failed the Biblical test due to lack of interpretation. God, speaking through Paul, in the epistle to the Corinthians is clear that there must be someone to interpret. What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 1 Co 14:25-28 Verse 33: For God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

As to the 'laying on of hands' to receive the Holy Spirit, is this Biblical or logical? How is it that a mere human, a fallen creature, can impart the Holy Spirit to another fallen creature? It is God alone who grants the Holy Spirit's indwelling at the moment of conversion. God is sovereign over the entire process: God woos the sinner to the beauty of Christ, with an irresistible pull; The sinner surrenders acknowledging sin state and need for Savior; the sinner is born again and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit come in and 'sup with him'. Salvation is an act of God's Sovereignty as it takes an incredible amount of power to convert a sinner. The requirement of someone lay their hands on me to either 'baptize me by fire'/'baptize me into the Holy Spirit' just sounds too afar from Scriptures for my comfort.

Denominations are a man made system of division that has caused the simplicity of the first century church to be lost. Would that we all believed only the Bible, minus tradition and ritual. What power we could display to the Glory of God if we only stood on the Bible.

Shalom in Christ
____________________________
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem:pray

Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 1 Co 4:1