Lord of the Rings Online

[NewWorldOrder]

Personally, I love the "LOTR" movies and books and I AM NOT CONDEMNING OR EVEN COMMENTING ON THE GAME OR THOSE WHO PLAY IT.

I am just wondering how the following question will be answered when it is asked by someone:

Can a "Christian" guild prosper and present a positive image of the Body of Jesus Christ while engaging in a game environment which is based on the use and abuse of magical powers?


Peace - Patrick ><>


:aha

Yes, they can.

[Mindenite]

Can a "Christian" guild prosper and present a positive image of the Body of Jesus Christ while engaging in a game environment which is based on the use and abuse of magical powers?

Given that there is no magic in the books, movies, or game, I would say yes.

[StarVoyager]

Given that there is no magic in the books, movies, or game, I would say yes.

No magic?

Wow - I must have read four different books (inc. "The Hobbit") and watched 3 diffrernt movies.

Can you explain "No Magic"?

Peace - Patrick ><>

[Mindenite]

No magic?

Wow - I must have read four different books (inc. "The Hobbit") and watched 3 diffrernt movies.

Can you explain "No Magic"?

Peace - Patrick ><>
The only instances of anything that could be called magic come from the evil entities. Since magic (or whatever in real life one would call it) is evil, showing magic being used by evil isn't wrong. However, everything that could be called magic by the good entities can explained in several ways. 1) Gandalf is essentially an angelic entity sent to Middle Earth directly by God. His powers are not magic but divinely bestowed. 2) The elves, such as Galadriel, seem to have certain powers, but they aren't human. They were made by God in a different way than the race of men. 3) All healing powers either come from Gandalf, who is basically an angel, or Aragorn who simply uses medical knowledge of herbs.

Who else on the side of good uses perceived magic? What other happens are seemingly explained by magic? I venture to guess that all of them can be explained in other ways just like how people 300 years ago would see our ways and technology and call us witches and warlocks when, in fact, they aren't. By all means, list the examples that stick out in your mind. Tolkien was a devout Christian and did not do the whole "magic" thing.

[StarVoyager]

Call it what you want - it's magic... "good" as well as "evil".

As I said, I'm not condoning or condemning the books, movies or games. You gave an explanation and I accept it as you answer.

Thanks for your response.

Peace - Patrick ><>

[Mindenite]

Call it what you want - it's magic... "good" as well as "evil".

As I said, I'm not condoning or condemning the books, movies or games. You gave an explanation and I accept it as you answer.

Thanks for your response.

Peace - Patrick ><>
So God is magic, thus making God evil. God is written into the Lord of the Rings mythos. Everything that happens that seems to those who have not read the backstory as magic is God or Satan, just like real life.

[StarVoyager]

So God is magic, thus making God evil. God is written into the Lord of the Rings mythos. Everything that happens that seems to those who have not read the backstory as magic is God or Satan, just like real life.


You have proceeded from a false interpretation of what I was saying. I in no way equate GOD with evil.

However I do challenge the belief that the entire LOTR genre is "Christian" based and "Christian " allegorical.

Quote from: http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/rings.htm

Tolkien, himself, assures us that he didn't intend to teach Biblical reality through his mythical fantasy. In a 1956 letter he wrote, "There is no 'allegory' -- moral, political, or contemporary -- in the work at all. It is a 'fairy-story' ... [written] for adults. 232 Later he continued,

"It is, I should say, a 'monotheistic but 'sub-creational' mythology.' There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers. These take the place of the 'gods', but are created spirits...."[8]

Yet, many Christians argue that Tolkien's spiritual hierarchy does indeed parallel the Biblical account. Even Tolkien, in spite of his denials, has compared parts of his myth with corresponding aspects of truth. But the obvious similarities tend to confuse rather than clarify Biblical truth. For Tolkien's myth twists Scriptures enough to change their meanings and muddle the true nature of God. Like the serpent's temptation in the garden, Tolkien's illusions of truth appeal to human feelings and may lead to deception.


For example, his elves and wizards -- the creatures empowered with magical skills -- enjoy the certainty of unconditional eternal life. But humans do not. Their lives -- with rare exceptions [9] -- must end with their physical death.


Instead of the Christian's hope of eternal life, Tolkien's world offers re-incarnation -- but only for a select group. This popular notion defies the Scriptures that tell us that "it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment..." [Heb 9:27] Concerned about this contradiction, the manager of a Catholic bookstore asked Tolkien if he might have "over-stepped the mark in metaphysical matters." Tolkien wrote this response,

"'Reincarnation' may be bad theology (that surely, rather than metaphysics) as applied to Humanity... But I do not see how even in the Primary world any theologian or philosopher, unless very much better informed about the relation of spirit and body than I believe anyone to be, could deny the possibility of re-incarnation as a mode of existence, prescribed for certain kinds of rational incarnate creatures."[10]

Since Tolkien denies any supposed allegorical link between his myth and Biblical truth, it's not fair to hold his stories accountable to that truth. Nor is it wise to continue claiming that they teach us God's truth. Those who do could easily be tempted to lower their guard, set aside discernment, internalize the fascinating suggestions and be drawn to occult images -- the opposite of God's warning in Romans 12:9: "Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good."


I love the LOTR stories and they are a pleasant diversion, but even by the words of LOTR's creator, they are not Christian and Bible based allegories, and no amount of wishing it to be so will make it so.


Peace - Patrick ><>

[Mindenite]

That is because Tolkien hated allegory. He and C.S. Lewis had a huge falling out over this. He felt Lewis' Narnia was far too allegorical. However, there are more ways to write fantasy with a Christian foundation than allegory. In all honesty, Tolkien would hate what I have said thus far. Gandalf is different from an angel just as Illuvatar is different from God. Lord of the Rings, no matter how similiar, is different from the Bible and is no allegory. Many things are very similiar and Tolkien himself has said that his writing was unconsiously Christian when first written and then reinforced as such upon revision. Christian it may be, but no Bible substitute, of course.

My only qualm with what you are saying, and I apologize for my previous curtness, is that the "magic" in Lord of the Rings is not magic at all. Merlin had magical powers. Gandalf has powers bestowed upon him by the Lord of the Rings' version of God. Take, for instance, Star Wars. What if George Lucas had taken the impersonal "force" and shaped it into a personal God of some kind? The "magic" of the force would then have been completely reasonable and ok. It is getting down to semantics, but when we are dealing with fictional characters in fictional worlds in works of fiction, that is all it really can be.

[StarVoyager]

That was a very good explanation and I appreciate your time in writing it and passing it along. :thumbup

And, it makes sense!

Peace - Patrick ><>

[dpthayer]

I have read the entire series at leat three times and watched the movies several times and I have never heard mention of reincarnation. Which group of entities enjoyed this mode of eternal life?