OSAS question

[Doobie56]

There are a few reasons which cause people to assume that you can "fall away" from the faith. One huge reason is that the bible says so. That said however, there is a big difference between what the Bible says and what the Bible means. We must learn to read the Bible as it intended, and that involves proper hermanutics. Biblically speaking, no one who is born of God will fall away, because no one who is born of God can live in habitual sin (1John 3:9). If you live in habitual sin and claim to be a Christian, you are lying to yourself and the truth is not in you. Moreover, you are a child of the devil. All of this is summed up nicely in the book of 1 John. The book, by the way, is written so that "you may know that you have 'eternal life.'"

You mean to tell me that *you* don't sin anymore? Why, because *you* are saved and maybe I am not? :idunno

[Saved by Grace_06]

SavedbyGrace, we are redeemed people through Christ yes... but during the OT days Jesus was NOT even known by the people. Reason they were commanded to go to the temple to worship God. The difference between the people of the OT and those of the NT and since the death of Christ on the cross, His resurrection, and ascending to heaven.... we are NOT commanded to go to the temple to worship.. cause the TEMPLE is in us. God found those in the OT righteous through HIMSELF... we are found righteous through CHRIST JESUS.

Actually, brother, that isn't true. All those who are forgiven by God and who are counted as righteous, are forgiven because of Christ. True, the OT did not know Jesus as we do, but they nonetheless received forgiveness the same way - namely, through faith. They [OT saints] believed in the promise to come, and we believe in the promise that came, namely Jesus. In the Old Testament, God showed his people how he was going to deal with sin, and the New Testament revealed how he did it - vis - Jesus' atoning sacrifice. Christ is the only reason anyone is counted as righteous, as his righteousness is imputed to the believer through faith, thus having the recipient "righteous in Christ" and therefore perfect and worthy to be in God's presence.

[Saved by Grace_06]

celticmist138

Where are the examples from the scriptures that tell how on can fall away once in Christ. Please give scriptures!!

There aren't any. I think you may have missed my point? I wasn't saying that the Bible teach that true believers can fall away once they have recieved life in Jesus, but rather some people assume this. Furthermore, I mentioned that the reason some assume this is because they fail to understand what the Bible means over and against what it says (seeminly). For this reason, I suggested proper hermanutics.

Its a big difference because man has tried to understand the Bible's meaning with logic. Man has been proven wrong in many areas of how they understand what is meant by what the Bible says.

The primary reason for having is brain is for you to know God. Please do not assume logic to be a bad thing. It is because we no longer study laws of logic we have so many problems within what we believe.


The book of 1 John was speaking to the Jewish people who have tasted the TRUTH, just like in Hebrews, the audience are those Jewish people that wanted to have both worlds the old Jewish ways mixed with Christ's teaching. If they went back to the old ways.. then the TRUTH was never in their hearts in the first place.

Actually, the book of 1John was written that anyone (Gentile or Jew) "could know that they have eternal life" (1 John 5:13). I agree with you: Those who fall away have was never really apart of the faith to begin with. No one gets born again and then gets unborn agian...again.

We are saved by the very grace and mercy of God. We don't have a "ticket" to go sin, but God knows we will still FALL SHORT of His glory while we are in the flesh. Reason we have Spiritual Warfare!!!! Our spirit knows it is sin, our flesh wants to say its not sin. The battle begins!!!

Yep!

I'm like Doobie here, do you think you are sinless now that you have Christ in your life? If you do, then the truth is NOT in you. You can't tell us that you have not sinned since giving your life to Christ. If you do, congratulations you are the first person then that has been made perfect since Christ.

I wish! I live between Romans 6 and 7 and scream too often "Oh wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death!" That said however, I know that if I live in habitual sin, the truth is not in me as God has promised that "no one born of God can live in habitual sin, because God's seed remains in him and prevents him from doing so" (1 John 3:9). The Christian is a "New Creation." He has new desires that cause him to love what God loves and hate what God hates (to a varying degree depending on the grace given from God in the person). Therefore, a Christian cannot live in sin, since that is no longer his nature. It is much like a fish out of water. For a while, the fish may want to jump out of the water, but because he cannot live there, he must go back into the water. A "Christian" living in sin is an oxymoron.

What was Paul talking about when he spoke on "knowing what is right but still does wrong"? Just because were are saved, does not mean we will not sin anymore. Sole reason we need to continue to repent of these sins.

I'm sorry, but did I say something to cause you to believe I was perfect?

[Saved by Grace_06]

You mean to tell me that *you* don't sin anymore? Why, because *you* are saved and maybe I am not? :idunno


No, I did not mean that. I wish that were true as the essence is sin proves to us that we do things and love things and choose things, that show we do not value God above those things. That is why sin is so horid and wicked - it prefers lesser glories over the infinity glorious King of kings and uncreated Creator God. And, for a jealous God who will not share his glory, that is cause for infinte wrath.

[Saved by Grace_06]

:P: there you go again calling me brother... I'm a sister dear.. NOT a brother. PTL for that too!!!!

The OT Saints are not going to be part of the Rapture... they don't get raptured until the end of the 1000 year reign. They didn't know Jesus at all!!! What OT knew Jesus?

At the rapture .. the Bible tells us.. THE DEAD IN CHRIST shall rise first.....the OT Saints are not dead in Christ.....they never got the opportunity to receive the "gift of Salvation".

Sorry! I'm so bad with memory, please forgive me!! Two things to consider:

1. I wasn't talking about the rapture, but only that the OT saints and NT saints get saved the same way - namely, through "faith in Jesus." No faith in Jesus, no salvation for anyone.

2. Abraham knew Jesus. According to Jesus in John 8:56, Abraham both saw and rejoiced in Jesus.

[Saved by Grace_06]

Understand you were not referring to the Rapture.

John 8:56 Abraham saw from a distance, he didn't literally see Jesus. (Hebrew 11:13 "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth."). It probably refers to the universal scope of the Abrahamic covenant (Genesis 12, 13, 15, and 17). The OT Saints are found righteous for their FAITH IN GOD ALONE.

Actually, Abraham, probably more than any other OT saint knew of God's redemption in Jesus from the "sacrifice your son" occurance. Remember Abraham said "the Lord himself will provide the sacrifice." Also, Abraham saw a theophany of God. I do not think he knew Jesus as the NT saints knew him, but he nonetheless knew that God was going to provide the sacrifice for sin and all his burnt offerings was only a foreshadow.