Parable of the 10 Virgins: Wise & Unwise

[skypair]

I could use some insightful, if not expository type apologetic material that describes what is meant by the tale of the wise/foolish virgins depicted in Matthew 25:1-13. I've heard various commentaries on this, but the one I'm having difficulty with is that which says not all believers (true) will be taken in the Rapture as described in this passage.

I'm not seeing that. It has long been my belief that the wise virgins are "known" by the bridegroom (saved), while the foolish virgins are not known at all (unsaved).

Your thoughts? Here's the best I've got. The "virgins" are PROSPECTIVE brides -- "espoused," as Paul puts it in 2Cor 11:2 where he also uses the term "chaste virgin" of Christ. And this is a theme found in all the kingdom of heaven parables: that there are both believers and unbelievers in this earthly KoH ("tares" in Mt 13, for instance).

So what we have in Mt 25:1-13 is 5 foolish unbelievers and 5 wise. A very important difference between the 2 is that the foolish never brought any indwelling Holy Spirit "oil" at all! There's a couple of places where the parable can get "derailed" and that is one of them!

The coming of the bridegroom is, indeed, the rapture coming of Christ. Foolish unbelievers are left behind, but not without the ability to be saved. They are told to "go and buy" and this is the exact instruction given to the Laodicean Church that is "spewed out" of the rapture, "Go and buy of Me..."

And that is what they do!! Else they could never appear at the wedding door in heaven!! Else they could never ask to be included in the bride!

So when Christ said, "I never knew you," He is merely saying that were not His bride. It was too late for that. But you will notice that He does NOT, as in the other parables, cast them into darkness or fire. Rather, they will be resurrected into the MK on earth where the kingdom of heaven finds its ultimate fulfillment before it is "delivered up to the Father" at the end of 1000 years.

There is good correspondence, BTW, between this parable and Rev 2-3. In the latter, there are 5 churches that will be raptured all or in part and there are 5 that will be left behind all or in part, IMO. This does not mean I believe in a "partial rapture," but that the raptured church is the true church (to use your words) and the left behind church will have to be saved in the OT way which looked forward to the coming of the Messiah.

skypair

[Tres Wright]

Thanks Granny :hug I'm really enjoying this thread, I've learned so much about the "ten virgins" passage, a subject that I thought I already knew about :)

[Russ]

I don't think this parable has anything to do with the Church. Many mistake the "oil" representing the Holy Spirit indwelling in the Church age. I believe these 10 virgins in Matthew 25 are people on earth after the tribulation when Jesus returns to judge the nations. He separates the sheep(saved) and goats(unsaved) in the same Chp of Matthew. This is after Matthew 24 which describe the events of the great tribulation.

[skypair]

I don't think this parable has anything to do with the Church. Many mistake the "oil" representing the Holy Spirit indwelling in the Church age. I believe these 10 virgins in Matthew 25 are people on earth after the tribulation when Jesus returns to judge the nations. He separates the sheep(saved) and goats(unsaved) in the same Chp of Matthew. This is after Matthew 24 which describe the events of the great tribulation.

You are confusing Mt 25:1-13 with Mt 25:14-46. It's done all the time. But the proof is this: When Jesus comes again, He will cast all unbelievers -- Jews in Mt 25:14-30 and Gentiles in Mt 25:31-46 -- into hell.

This is NOT the fate of the foolish virgins. That parable never says that they are damned in any way. In fact, they come so close to the "Wedding" that they knock on the door thereof!

Please reconsider your post. I think you will find other misunderstandings as well.

skypair

[KaiafromBergen]

You are confusing Mt 25:1-13 with Mt 25:14-46. It's done all the time. But the proof is this: When Jesus comes again, He will cast all unbelievers -- Jews in Mt 25:14-30 and Gentiles in Mt 25:31-46 -- into hell.

This is NOT the fate of the foolish virgins. That parable never says that they are damned in any way. In fact, they come so close to the "Wedding" that they knock on the door thereof!

Please reconsider your post. I think you will find other misunderstandings as well.

skypair

So how do you interpret:

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

That's what will be said at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Matt 7:22-23

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[skypair]

So how do you interpret:

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. I believe that the "foolish," like Laodicea, are "in" the church but not "of" the church ("neither hot nor cold"). They have an outward appearance of "church" (much like the "foolish virgins" were able light their lamps) but there is no salvation Spirit in them, re: Rev 3:17. They basically look for Christ to come without being truly ready for that day.

So while the "wise ... went in with Him to the marriage," the "foolish" were "spued out" (Rev 3:16) and sent to "buy of Me gold [justification], white raiment [sanctification], and eyesalve [discernment of the truth]."

Notice that the "foolish" show up "at the door of the wedding," but we don't know what they bought. But what they bought makes them think a) that they belong with the rest of the bride and b) that they were obedient to the Bridegroom. At this point, I believe that salvation is by the OT gospel, not "of Jesus Christ," but "of His kingdom." They will be "espoused" to Christ in the MK at which time they will be "resurrected bodily" and indwelt with the "earnest of our [church believer's] inheritance," the Holy Spirit.


That's what will be said at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Matt 7:22-23

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. That is true. Realize that, if the "door to the wedding" was a "judgment seat," then those not known WOULD be cast into outer darkness. But it is not picturing that and it is not a judgment seat.

Here's precisely what I believe Mt 25:11-12 is: "I saw under the altar [in heaven - they were saved] the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season [GT], until their fellowservants [Rev 7:9-17]also and their brethren [others of the 'foolish virgin'], that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Rev 6:9

So notice several things: 1) they appear in heaven, not "outer darkness." 2) They have the "white raiment," not "fine linen, white and clean" of the bride, to cover their nakedness at not having believed on Christ pretrib (re: 2Cor 5:3-4) 3) They appear to be unaware that their Jewish "fellowservants" are to be saved during the dispensation of the tribulation. To my understanding, the Jews don't "return unto God" until midtrib.

skypair

[hebron]

My view of this parable is whether the 5 virgins who asked for oil had it or not

7"Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8The foolish ones said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.'

if you look at the above scripture we can see their oil was running out and there lamps were going out because of this...so they must have had the Holy Spirit initially because otherwise their lamps wouldn't have been lit in the first place

Also 'virgins' represents purity.

“But if the servant [the elect] says in his heart, the Lord delays his coming [which all ten of the virgins did] and they begin to beat their fellow servants, and they eat and drink and get drunk. The Lord will come in the day when he is not looking for him, . . . and the Lord will cut him apart and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers“ (luke vs.45-46).

A person who becomes lazy in his walk with God, goes back into the world, or becomes abusive to others within the body of the elect will be cut off from God.

[skypair]

My view of this parable is whether the 5 virgins who asked for oil had it or not. This is an issue, to be sure!


if you look at the above scripture we can see their oil was running out and there lamps were going out because of this...so they must have had the Holy Spirit initially because otherwise their lamps wouldn't have been lit in the first place. Two points: 1) A lamp wick WILL burn until the no more wick is exposed, right? Is that not a likely explanation? The foolish had something to burn, but it wasn't oil.

2) The passage makes great pains to say "but the foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them." It is the spirit of confusion that makes this specific statement to say something other than what it says (And we know where the spirit of confusion comes from, no?).


Also 'virgins' represents purity.

“But if the servant [the elect] says in his heart, the Lord delays his coming [which all ten of the virgins did] and they begin to beat their fellow servants, and they eat and drink and get drunk. The Lord will come in the day when he is not looking for him, . . . and the Lord will cut him apart and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers“ (luke vs.45-46).

A person who becomes lazy in his walk with God, goes back into the world, or becomes abusive to others within the body of the elect will be cut off from God. This just raises another issue that the parable (and scripture) DOESN'T teach -- that you can lose your salvation.

And YOU ought to be ashamed because YOU bring draw from (though I realize you have done so innocently) another parable that is NOT applicable. The Luke passage and even the one closer at hand, Mt 24:45-51, refer to tribulation Israel who are consistently referred to in the KoH parables as "servants." Notice that whenever the church/Gentiles are being spoken about, other referants are used -- "laborers" in Mt 20, "virgins" in Mt 25, "sheep" in Mt 25, "householder" in Mt 24 (tho this is not a KoH parable), etal. When Jesus comes again to earth, He will reward the good servants in the MK and will cast out the unwise.

hebron, I hope you nor anyone else will take these corrections the wrong way. I know you can't be responsible for what you haven't heard. And I know these formulations are more common than those discerned by believers for the reason that there are more who are not saved than who are. As Dr Rogeers used to say, "One man who believes has more insight than 10 men 'with more degrees than a thermometer.'"

skypair

[hebron]

Skypair wrote hebron, I hope you nor anyone else will take these corrections the wrong way. I know you can't be responsible for what you haven't heard. And I know these formulations are more common than those discerned by believers for the reason that there are more who are not saved than who are. As Dr Rogeers used to say, "One man who believes has more insight than 10 men 'with more degrees than a thermometer.'"
I do not take anything you say the wrong way, then again I do not take it the right way either. One made a statement not a conclusion. I'm afraid I do not take your conclusion as fact nor do I take it as true. Sorry!

[KaiafromBergen]

I believe that the "foolish," like Laodicea, are "in" the church but not "of" the church ("neither hot nor cold"). They have an outward appearance of "church" (much like the "foolish virgins" were able light their lamps) but there is no salvation Spirit in them, re: Rev 3:17. They basically look for Christ to come without being truly ready for that day.

So while the "wise ... went in with Him to the marriage," the "foolish" were "spued out" (Rev 3:16) and sent to "buy of Me gold [justification], white raiment [sanctification], and eyesalve [discernment of the truth]."

Notice that the "foolish" show up "at the door of the wedding," but we don't know what they bought. But what they bought makes them think a) that they belong with the rest of the bride and b) that they were obedient to the Bridegroom. At this point, I believe that salvation is by the OT gospel, not "of Jesus Christ," but "of His kingdom." They will be "espoused" to Christ in the MK at which time they will be "resurrected bodily" and indwelt with the "earnest of our [church believer's] inheritance," the Holy Spirit.

That is true. Realize that, if the "door to the wedding" was a "judgment seat," then those not known WOULD be cast into outer darkness. But it is not picturing that and it is not a judgment seat.

Here's precisely what I believe Mt 25:11-12 is: "I saw under the altar [in heaven - they were saved] the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season [GT], until their fellowservants [Rev 7:9-17]also and their brethren [others of the 'foolish virgin'], that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." Rev 6:9

So notice several things: 1) they appear in heaven, not "outer darkness." 2) They have the "white raiment," not "fine linen, white and clean" of the bride, to cover their nakedness at not having believed on Christ pretrib (re: 2Cor 5:3-4) 3) They appear to be unaware that their Jewish "fellowservants" are to be saved during the dispensation of the tribulation. To my understanding, the Jews don't "return unto God" until midtrib.

skypair

So the foolish virgins are martyrs? They are lumped into the same category as Jim Elliot and Nate Saint, and all the others who were murdered for their stand for God?