Hell doesn't really exist?

[lisa]

I don't get this. I've noticed some post's people put those *** in place of letters and I'm confused as to why and what it means :scratch

It's the foul language filter set a tad too high. :lol2 Todd can fix it.

[Leialoha]

You'll find churches in the ELCA that also teach that Hell isn't real.
Hey, Brian McLaren (loved and adored by Youth Pastors in every form of evangelical churches) plays with the idea in his non-committal way that Hell isn't real.

[graceforme]

I meant to type ELCA, as referred to in Leialoha's post.

I'm not sure what that is. Can you explain, please?

God Bless.

[Betty]

What did Jesus say about hell?
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 3:12 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Mat 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.



Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater ****ation.

Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[graceforme]

Proof positive for me. Scripture proves over and over that hell does indeed exist. I can't believe that guys like this Pearson guy come up with this stuff. And the sad part is - people will soak this up like crazy - and be led astray by his lies.

Scripture says that in the end times men will be led astray by false teachers. Why? Because those false teachers will tell them only what they want to hear, not the truth as the Word presents it.

God help us.

[Wally]

I think most would argee with the following progressions:

If there is no hell, then there is no punishment
if there is no punishment, then there is no need for The Law
if there is no Law, then sin does not exist
If sin does not exsist, then the concept if right and wrong is an abstract that we can mold to our desires.

Better said, if there is no hell then Jesus lied and is not worthy to be called God, making Christianity a farce.

Again another hammer blow to the foundation, but rest assured the Rock will remain.

I found another interesting reoccuring phrase in the Bible regarding those destined for hell: "where their worm dieth not". Searching Strong's I was left with the understanding that those cast into the eternal fire will be plagued with unfulfilled desires - sexual, as well as pain and darkness.

With a destination so utterly terrible, no wonder the satanic soft sellers want to make it quick inihilation (JWs), temporary (purgatory), or non exsistant - everyone saved.

God is quite clear that many are headed there and only a few will be spared.
I'm glad I got my ticket punched - paid in full - free, but I'm humbled that one time I was headed there too. Thank You Jesus!

[Betty]

Some one told me, that when people start saying things like "my God" would never send anyone to hell, they are committing the sin of idolatry. Because they have stopped serving the God of the Bible and starting serving a "God" they created in their own mind. You could carry this over to those who are living a homosexual lifestyle or allow their Pastor to be homosexual and still preach. They have replaced the God of the Bible and replaced Him with a "God" they have created so that they can either live in their sinful lifestyle and feel like they are Christian or they are more concerned about PC then about serving the true God of the Bible. Either way it is very dangerous to ignore the God of the Bible and create your own "God" that will accept sin as good and good as bad.
betty

[lisa]

I think most would argee with the following progressions:

If there is no hell, then there is no punishment
if there is no punishment, then there is no need for The Law
if there is no Law, then sin does not exist
If sin does not exsist, then the concept if right and wrong is an abstract that we can mold to our desires.

Better said, if there is no hell then Jesus lied and is not worthy to be called God, making Christianity a farce.

Again another hammer blow to the foundation, but rest assured the Rock will remain.

I found another interesting reoccuring phrase in the Bible regarding those destined for hell: "where their worm dieth not". Searching Strong's I was left with the understanding that those cast into the eternal fire will be plagued with unfulfilled desires - sexual, as well as pain and darkness.

With a destination so utterly terrible, no wonder the satanic soft sellers want to make it quick inihilation (JWs), temporary (purgatory), or non exsistant - everyone saved.

God is quite clear that many are headed there and only a few will be spared.
I'm glad I got my ticket punched - paid in full - free, but I'm humbled that one time I was headed there too. Thank You Jesus!

Well said, Wally.

[funmudder]

Yep.

However, there seems to be a sore lack in understanding the "when" that hell becomes that place of torment. As I read in the threads where emergent apostacy is being defended, one thing (of many) keeps popping up: The lack of Biblical education over modern day author's books.

One person made the statement "Anyone who believes in unlimited atonement would say that there are people in Hell for whom Jesus died."

Alrighty. Here is the ultra-condensed-not-too-much-background version of an actual Biblically based answer to that:

The answer varies depending on when you are talking about. Before Christ died/rose or after? Before the believers get resurrected or after?

There is a place called Sheol in Hebrew (mentioned in Psalms) and Hades in Greek. It's the abode of the dead. It's where the souls of people who died went and still go.

Jesus describes two people who died and both went to Hades (Luke 16). The rich man who didn't trust in God went to the side of Hades that was hot and nasty. The poor man who did trust in God went to the part called Abraham's Bosom, a place of comfort. Between these two parts is a chasm that can't be crossed. Once you die you go where you go and can't change sides. So, before Christ died/rose those who trusted in God (like Adam, Moses, David, and this poor dude) went to the pleasant side of Hades. Those who did not trust in God went to the unpleasant side. Think of Hades like a waiting room.

When Christ died/rose the pleasant side was emptied. All of those souls were now in the presence of the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:8). Since that time, all those who put their trust in God, when they die, go directly to the presence of the Lord, no need to go wait in Hades for a while. Some people refer to this as Heaven, but it isn't the Heaven with streets of gold and pearly gates. More on that later. What is this presence of the Lord, this Heaven like? No idea. It's gotta be pretty cool though, right?

At some point in the future, those who have died and had their faith in Christ will be resurrected (1 Corinthians 15:50+). These bodies will never get sick or old or die. At some point after this, God is going to nuke the universe and start over. he is going to reshape/recreate out universe. This is found in Revelation 21. That is when we will be in the New Heaven with the streets of gold and pearly gates.

So, if a Christian dies today, they go to Heaven, which is in the presence of the Lord. At some point they will get a new physical body which will, at some point, live in the New Heaven.

What about those souls in Hades? What is Hell? If someone who does not put their trust in God, someone who is not a Christian dies, they go to that nasty side of Hades which has been filling up this whole time. It's a hot unpleasant place, but it isn't Hell.

At some point, these souls too will be given a new resurrection body just like the Christians get. In Revelation 20 it talks about how they will be judged by their works. This judgement isn't like "You go to Hell, you go to Heaven" judgement. It's a reward judgement, like the Olympics. It says in Rev. 20 that those whose names are not written in the Lambs book of life will not enter the New Heaven.

All of these people will be cast into the Lake of Fire with Satan and his demons. Satan is not in charge in Hell. He won't be walking around with his demons like a prison warden and guards. He is right in there with the rest of the people who took the easy road in matters of life and faith.

So, to sum up. What most people think of as Heaven and Hell won't happen until the very end of things. Between now and then souls are sent to a holding place where they are conscious and aware of who, what, where, when, why, and how. Those who are in Christ are in the presence of the Lord awaiting the New Heaven and New Earth. Those who are not in Christ are awaiting their sentencing hearing before being sent to prison.

Does that help?

Jesus died for EVERYONE, but not everyone will accept His gift.

[Leialoha]

Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America is ELCA.

They are going off the deep end....