Question about God's Will

[Saved by Grace_06]

Note the following scriptures:

1. "What he desires, that he does." - Job 23:13

2. "Whatever the LORD pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps." - Psa 135:6

3. "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9

If God wants all men to be saved (as some contend for) and he always does what he wants (note Job 23:13 and Psa 135:6), why aren't all men saved?

[Aliya]

I don't see a contradiction there for two possible reasons

1) God can do what he desires and pleases, and he can wish that none would perish, but those wishes don't have to override the free will he gave man. In other words, God made a choice between two of his wishes - free will for us and the wish that all would choose him.

2) While God's nature never changes, his rules for mankind do. We don't know exactly when Job lived, but apparently it was pre-Law. The second verse is from Psalms, which were written to Jews under Law - Jews were God's elect people. In the last verse, Peter is writing during this period of universal election - in other words, all men are called, few respond. Those three verses are speaking to God's desires for mankind at three different periods, which had different rules, for lack of a better word.

[Saved by Grace_06]

I don't see a contradiction there for two possible reasons

1) God can do what he desires and pleases, and he can wish that none would perish, but those wishes don't have to override the free will he gave man. In other words, God made a choice between two of his wishes - free will for us and the wish that all would choose him.

2) While God's nature never changes, his rules for mankind do. We don't know exactly when Job lived, but apparently it was pre-Law. The second verse is from Psalms, which were written to Jews under Law - Jews were God's elect people. In the last verse, Peter is writing during this period of universal election - in other words, all men are called, few respond. Those three verses are speaking to God's desires for mankind at three different periods, which had different rules, for lack of a better word.


I think you have a good answer. But, I'm not really understanding all of what you saying. God in 2 Peter 3:9 "desires" all men to be saved and in Job 23:13, always does what he "desires." How do you reconcile God wanting all men to be saved and God always doing what he wants, when all men are not saved?

[MattinLondon]

Hello everyone there is a difference between God`s perfect will and his permissive will. Life would be a lot easier if all of us lived according to his perfect will however more often than not in expressing our own free will we make the wrong choices. God being good and just doesn not obliterate us straight away but through events can engineer things so that ultimately his perfect will is carried out. However this will never overrule our choices, it just means if we make the wrong choice will alway pay the price for that decision. Hope that helps.

[Saved by Grace_06]

Hello everyone there is a difference between God`s perfect will and his permissive will. Life would be a lot easier if all of us lived according to his perfect will however more often than not in expressing our own free will we make the wrong choices. God being good and just doesn not obliterate us straight away but through events can engineer things so that ultimately his perfect will is carried out. However this will never overrule our choices, it just means if we make the wrong choice will alway pay the price for that decision. Hope that helps.

I agree that there are two wills in God. Call it perfect vs premissive or revealed will vs hidden, etc., it doesn't change the apparent problem. Does God desire "all" men saved or not? If, as Psa 135:6 says, "God always does what he wants" and he does not save all men when it is written that he wants to, then God values something more than his desire to see all men saved? What does he value more than seeing all men saved?

[lostsheep]

I agree that there are two wills in God. Call it perfect vs premissive or revealed will vs hidden, etc., it doesn't change the apparent problem. Does God desire "all" men saved or not? If, as Psa 135:6 says, "God always does what he wants" and he does not save all men when it is written that he wants to, then God values something more than his desire to see all men saved? What does he value more than seeing all men saved?

Dude!! Welcome back!!!
I'm on the edge of my seat for an answer to your questions.
I am not scripturally knowledgeable enough to answer, but I'm am sure you are.
The only thing I can say is God makes the wise man foolish and who am I being the clay to ask the potter why he does what he does.

I just had a thought...God wants to save all men, but His desire to be worshipped causes Him to chose some and not others so that the objects of His mercy will recognize it as mercy and truely worship Him??

[MattinLondon]

I agree that there are two wills in God. Call it perfect vs premissive or revealed will vs hidden, etc., it doesn't change the apparent problem. Does God desire "all" men saved or not? If, as Psa 135:6 says, "God always does what he wants" and he does not save all men when it is written that he wants to, then God values something more than his desire to see all men saved? What does he value more than seeing all men saved?

Answer: our free will. Us having free will is one of the attributes of being created in God`s image. Yes God always does what he wants and that includes not forcing us to accept his perfect will. A perfect, holy, just and God would not be any of those things if he allow us to make our own choice and face the consequences.

[Saved by Grace_06]

I agree that there are two wills in God. Call it perfect vs premissive or revealed will vs hidden, etc., it doesn't change the apparent problem. Does God desire "all" men saved or not? If, as Psa 135:6 says, "God always does what he wants" and he does not save all men when it is written that he wants to, then God values something more than his desire to see all men saved? What does he value more than seeing all men saved?

Answer: our free will. Us having free will is one of the attributes of being created in God`s image. Yes God always does what he wants and that includes not forcing us to accept his perfect will. A perfect, holy, just and God would not be any of those things if he allow us to make our own choice and face the consequences.

OK. So that is your answer: "God values our freewill choice of him above his desire to see all men saved." Did God know that most of the world would use their freewill to not come to Christ? And, if he did, why did he create people to which he knew would have to suffer infinite agony in hell?

[MattinLondon]

[QUOTE=MattinLondon;107552]

OK. So that is your answer: "God values our freewill choice of him above his desire to see all men saved." Did God know that most of the world would use their freewill to not come to Christ? And, if he did, why did he create people to which he knew would have to suffer infinite agony in hell?

That my dear friend is one of the great mysteries that we should hopefully get an answer to. Is the eternal judgement of all who reject Jesus worth less the eternal bliss that all true believers will enjoy? As a mere creation I cannot answer that but it brings us back to the original statement. God does not want anyone to perish, if only we would all humble ourselves and turn to him but alas that is not going to happen.

[Saved by Grace_06]

[QUOTE=Saved by Grace_06;107557]

That my dear friend is one of the great mysteries that we should hopefully get an answer to. Is the eternal judgement of all who reject Jesus worth less the eternal bliss that all true believers will enjoy? As a mere creation I cannot answer that but it brings us back to the original statement. God does not want anyone to perish, if only we would all humble ourselves and turn to him but alas that is not going to happen.

"If we would all humble ourselves and turn to him."

But alas..."None seek after God" (Romans 3:11).

Take a look at the following article, I believe you'll find it interesting.

Two Wills in God (http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1995/1580_Are_There_Two_Wills_in_God/)