latter day rain movement(bikle)

[kenod]

A lot of people think that way and thats what cause trouble in most churches, people go by what they feel and not what scripture says.

So what are you saying ... you'd rather be right in your doctrine and wrong in your heart? :) (They were the only two options I was considering).

I think we'd probably both prefer to be right in our doctrine, and right in our heart, eh?

There are differences in doctrine among churches, but they can still all be saved, if they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.

I much prefer Baptist doctrine to Catholic doctrine, but if the Baptist is trusting in his church membership, and the Catholic is trusting in Jesus Christ, who is saved and who is not?

[kenod]

What a person chooses to believe about William Branham's ministry, or any other teacher for that matter, does not concern me, but I am interested in trying to get a clear and accurate picture of what is factual and what is not.

When reading carefully, I think it becomes clear that William Branham's distinction between a prophecy and a prediction is that he believed the first was shown to him by God, and the second was his own opinion. Since there are over 2000 hours of recorded comments by Branham, I suppose he, like anyone else, is entitled to express a personal opinion.



Thirdly, he encountered a fortune-teller who stopped him and pointed out that he (Branham) had a light following him and this represented he had a "divine calling" on his life.

Evil spirits recognize the Spirit of God:

Mat 8:28-29
And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Act 16:16-18
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

It's actually sad and unsettling to see how sincere people can be hoodwinked to follow a counterfeit christ or counterfeit signs and wonders.

Well, that is your personal opinion and you are entitled to that of course. However, I think it would be an error to assume that those who do accept the teachings of William Branham do not know their Bibles ... in my experience they know the Scriptures exceedingly well, although their understanding may differ from yours in some points.


Correction : He's a noted Pentecostal historian and Charismatic and what he believes falls much in line with the likes of David Harrell and Kenneth Hagin.

Walter J. Hollenweger is the leading expert on worldwide Pentecostalism, which he has been studying for more than 40 years. Having grown up in the Pentecostal church, he later became ordained in the Reformed Church of Switzerland. From 1965 to 1971 he was executive secretary of the World Council of Churches, then served as professor of mission at England’s University of Birmingham for 18 years. His seminal book The Pentecostals (Hendrickson, 1972) was recently followed up by Pentecostalism: Origins and Developments Worldwide (Hendrickson, 1997). source (http://www.pastornet.net.au/renewal/journal13/13c%20Hollenweger.html)

David Edwin Harrell, Jnr., Professor Emeritus, received a B.A. degree from David Lipscomb College in 1954 and M.A. and Ph.D. degrees from Vanderbilt University in 1958 and 1962. He has written seven books on American religious history, including The Churches of Christ in the Twentieth Century: Homer Hailey’s Personal Journey of Faith (University of Alabama Press, 2000), Oral Roberts: An American Life (Indiana University Press, 1985) and Pat Robertson: A Personal, Religious, and Political Portrait (Harper & Row, 1987). He is co-editor of "Minorities in Modern America," a series published by Indiana University Press, and a series entitled "Religion and American Culture" by the University of Alabama Press. He is the author of over fifty articles in scholarly publications. He currently is co-authoring a college-level textbook on American history, Unto a Good Land: A History of the American People (Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishers, 2005). His current research interests focus on the history of the modern Pentecostal and charismatic movements and other primitivist religious movements in America.source (http://media.cla.auburn.edu/history/alumni/bios/harrell_ed.htm)


Years ago William Branham told his interpreter, "If my angel does not give the sign, I cannot heal." Ruff (his interpreter) noticed several features of spiritism in the work of Branham, and therefore stopped working with him.

Who is Ruff?

William Branham believed the "Angel" was the Holy Spirit in a visible form. And yes, he did wait for that sign of the appearance of the Light (Angel) before beginning to pray for people in the meetings, but he NEVER said he could heal anyone - he said exactly the opposite on countless occasons.

My Bible tells me not to get involved in astrology and I cannot find mention of the pyramids in it either. Go figure.

All Christians believe that God created the stars, which includes all the constellations commonly called the zodiac (Psalm 19:1). At no time did William Branham ever tell anyone to take notice of astrology or pyramid teaching - in fact he frequently warned against it. He aways taught that the Bible is the infallible Word of God and the ONLY source of authority for the Christian believer.

What he also said was that before the written Scriptures, men could tell the existence of God and have a glimpse of His plan through the contellations of the zodiac and the structure of the great pyramid. The zodiac begins with the "virgin" and ends with the "lion" - representing Christ's first and second comings (Psalm 97:6). The wise men used their study of the stars to find their way to Jesus. But William Branham said that for the Christian today, astrology and fortune telling were wrong.

[Christy]

Evil spirits recognize the Spirit of God:

I'm well aware of that, but those that Branham encountered never told him he was sent by God, nor were they fearful of him. That in itself says a lot. What the Astrologer on the bus did (in not so many words) was actually compare him to Jesus Christ. Now that's a long stretch by anyone's standards. Evil spirits also recognise their own.

in my experience they know the Scriptures exceedingly well,

So does the devil and he's really good at twisting it.

Walter J. Hollenweger is the leading expert on worldwide Pentecostalism, which he has been studying for more than 40 years. Having grown up in the Pentecostal church, he later became ordained in the Reformed Church of Switzerland.

I am au fait with the above. But is he a doctor? Seeing as he was the "expert" that stated more healings took place in Switzerland than were actually reported. Or is it clearly hearsay?

He and Harrell both believe in an occultic practice called mind reading, as does Kenneth Hagin.

Who is Ruff?

Ruff was Branham's pesonal interpreter for many years. Branham's assistant (whose name fails me at this point) also left due to the very same thing. You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.

All Christians believe that God created the stars, which includes all the constellations commonly called the zodiac (Psalm 19:1). At no time did William Branham ever tell anyone to take notice of astrology or pyramid teaching - in fact he frequently warned against it. He aways taught that the Bible is the infallible Word of God and the ONLY source of authority for the Christian believer.

God did invent the stars - that's not in dispute here. Can you please provide proof that Branham never told anyone to take notice of the pyramids and astrology? He might've taught the Bible as the infallible Word of God, but he sure took it totally out of context - a good example being - he called his "angel" the 7th angel in Revelation 10:7 - now that is a future event that is to take place in Revelation.

What he also said was that before the written Scriptures, men could tell the existence of God and have a glimpse of His plan through the contellations of the zodiac and the structure of the great pyramid. The zodiac begins with the "virgin" and ends with the "lion" - representing Christ's first and second comings (Psalm 97:6).

This is a lie.

The following verse from Isaiah shows God addressing Babylon about the sins they are committing, including the seeking of guidance from astrologers....

Isaiah 47:13-14: All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by.

Leviticus 20:6 says God will separate himself from those who go after mediums and familiar spirits.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 says that practicing witchcraft, sorcery, soothsaying, interpreting omens, making spells, and being a medium or spiritist, are all terrible sins to God.

Daniel 2:27-28 talks of how God kept King Nebuchadnezzar's dream and its interpretation secret from the astrologers, magicians or dream interpreters, and soothsayers. However, he revealed it to his prophet Daniel.

Acts 16:16-18 talks of a girl who was possessed by an evil spirit that enabled her to be a fortune teller. Paul commanded the evil spirit to come out of her in the name or authority of Jesus, and the spirit left her:

Deuteronomy 18:9-11: "Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft..."

2 Chronicles 33:5-7: "He sacrificed his sons in the fire in the Valley of Ben Hinnom, practiced sorcery, divination and witchcraft, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger."

Throughout the entire Bible God allows only His prophets to accurately interpret any kind of "signs". It is important to to note that when the Bible talks about signs in the stars, heavens, or whatever, they're usually literal signs:

Luke 21:24-26 says, "There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.

Psalm 97:6 : The heavens proclaim his righteousness, and all the peoples see his glory.
Psalm 19:1 : The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.

God created the stars. Heathen man created astrology. Huge difference.

So what are you saying ... you'd rather be right in your doctrine and wrong in your heart? (They were the only two options I was considering).

Only God knows the heart of men, so it's pretty futile trying to judge another man's heart if you are a man (woman?).

Proverbs 21:1-2 (KJV):
1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.
2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

Concerning the doctrine part:
ALL Scripture is God breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work 2 Timothy 3.16-17.

So with the above scripture in mind, if we are wrong in our doctrine then how possibly can we be correct, reproved, trained in righteousness so that we can be adequate and equipped for every good work? Hmmmmmmm.............

Branhams exact words concerning the Zodiac were, and I quote:

“The first Bible was in the sky, called the zodiac. Now if you don't know the Book of Job, just forget about it, 'cause--because Job is the one explains it: how that he looked up, and he named those things in the sky. And notice, in the zodiac is the virgin. The last thing in the zodiac is Leo the Lion: the first coming of Christ through the virgin; the second coming, Leo the Lion, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.”

"The gates of gigantic pearls are raised and hinged. Like a pyramid she stands so fair and glorious. The heavenly beings who have prepared her watch breathlessly, for she glistens and shines with a glory that is unearthly...Yes, it is the last call. The Spirit will not speak in another age. The ages are over."
Huh? Sounds rather more like pie in the sky to me and I never knew for the life of me that Job had "actually named the Zodiac". I cried with laughter when I read that. Indeed, truly a load of nonsense.

God himself named the stars in Psalm 147:4: "He tells the number of the stars; he calls them all by their names."

Idolatry consists in revering the created thing rather than the creator. Behind the worship of the sun, moon and stars are the demonic powers of the heavenly realm (1 Corinthians 10:20). Angels, fallen and unfallen, are God's instruments in the government of the physical world and nature (Hebrews 2:5). Seeking answers about the future in the stars-then or now-brings us under the control of demonic agencies-to our own harm and destruction.

[Buzzardhut]

So what are you saying ... you'd rather be right in your doctrine and wrong in your heart? :) (They were the only two options I was considering).

I think we'd probably both prefer to be right in our doctrine, and right in our heart, eh?

There are differences in doctrine among churches, but they can still all be saved, if they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for their salvation.

I much prefer Baptist doctrine to Catholic doctrine, but if the Baptist is trusting in his church membership, and the Catholic is trusting in Jesus Christ, who is saved and who is not?
God's will be done, not my will.
God's will is not in trusting any man made religions, memberships, or sacraments.

[kenod]

Can you please provide proof that Branham never told anyone to take notice of the pyramids and astrology?

Here's the oft quoted "God wrote three Bibles" comment in full:

A Paradox, 1964 (recorded sermon)
I believe God wrote three Bibles. He wrote one in the skies, which is the zodiac. Anybody knows that. Job spoke of it. What? Look at the zodiac. It starts off with the virgin. It ends up with Leo the lion. That's how He come, first with a virgin. His last, next coming, will be Leo the lion, see, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. And all, then, the crossed fishes, of what we're in now, the cancer age, and everything, it all speaks. But, forget it. See? That ain't your Bible. Then, the pyramids, exactly how they were drawed, the headstone was rejected. Still, that's not your Bible. Then, God wrote It on Words.

BTW, I think I'd look into Kurt E. Koch and the mysterious "Ruff" a little more closely. Koch finds demons lurking in every nook and cranny ... and of course the half billion Pentecostal/charismatic Christians are riddled with them. But he has made up some nice prayers to recite, and if you say them while sprinkling the person with water three times, they should go away. Gotta love the guy!

I'm surprised you haven't come across the names of the constellations in the book of Job. An interesting study when you get the time. You could start with Job 9:9 and Job 38:31-33. I don't know astronomy that well but I do think Venus (the morning and the evening star) has a special significance in that Jesus Christ is both Alpha and Omega (Rev 22:16). In my view, the Bible and astronomy are both of God; astrology is of the devil ... some people get confused about the difference between astronomy and astrology.

Whether Job gave the constellations their names, I do not know. That Job names some of them in his writing is agreed on by a number of Bible commentators. I'm not a fan of Wikipedia usually, but they have a short, interesting article on mazzaroth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazzaroth). (Job 38:32)

[Buzzardhut]

Here is a good book (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm) on Latter Rain false doctrines:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q193/crinie123/river.jpg (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm)

The Other Side of the River (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm)

A compelling and deeply personal account of a young man's spiritual plunge into a movement called the "River." Sometimes referred to as the River Revival, the Third Wave or the Latter Rain, this movement is marked by bizarre manifestations, false prophecies and esoteric revelations. Warnings of divine retribution hold many adherents in a bondage of fear, making them afraid to speak out or even question those things they are taught and are witness to.

In a biographical setting, The Other Side of the River, is a powerful and needed warning to the body of Christ. In a day and age when church-growth techniques mixed with mystical practices are leaving a wreckage of human lives littered with the debris of false doctrine.

This book is a "must read" (http://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-River-Kevin-Reeves/dp/0979131502/ref=sr_1_2/105-9546389-4923661?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185706427&sr=1-2) for anyone who has come to their senses within an apostate church and wondered what to do and how to do it. The Bible is clear that we are to mark and avoid false teachers (Rom. 16:17) and separate ourselves from those involved in sin (1 Cor. 6:17) while continuing to pray for them. But the issue of rejecting heresy and false prophesy becomes a matter of personal fortitude and deep emotional hurts when it involves close friends who have been brainwashed by "the river".

My testimony is similar to Kevin's (http://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-River-Kevin-Reeves/dp/0979131502/ref=sr_1_2/105-9546389-4923661?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1185706427&sr=1-2) in certain ways, though the Lord saved me from deep involvement in the Third Wave. I lost a number of close personal friends when I found myself in the position of either obeying the Lord and His Word or coming to consensus with men. But the Bible does not give Christians an "option". We are to stand for the truth whenever and wherever it is demanded of us, whether in the world or in the churches. We must stand for unity, but that means we are to put on the unity of the Spirit and strive for unity in the Faith (Eph. 4). When unity of the Faith (unity in the core doctrines as taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles) is not being upheld and taught, then the individual Christian is duty bound to reject that heresy and seek fellowship elsewhere. The Bible is clear that those who obey the Lord prove they love Him, and conversely those who disobey Him prove they do not love Him (John 14:15, 23, 24). We have many choices each day whether or not to obey the Lord. All of us fall down on this account. But we cannot be reconciled to the Lord without (1) repentance of sin and (2) not allowing ourselves into a situation of habitual, continual sin. Staying in a church that is teaching heresy, participating in false prophecy, and promoting false anointings (which are of another spirit) is putting yourself in a position where you are violating both of the above criteria for staying in the love of Christ. Only Jesus Christ can save because of His perfect substitutional salvation He purchased for us with His blood on the cross. But we must repent of our sins and turn to Him, taking up our cross daily and following Him. You cannot follow the Lord while living in habitual sin, and you will not be saved as long as you remain unrepenant. Remember that many will come saying "Lord, Lord" in the end but they will go to hell. They are those who think they will be justified by their many works of doing miracles, prophesying, casting out demons, etc. Today we have a whole generation of Christians who are enamored with works, and defend those they follow by constantly referring to them. But the Lord says this:

Matt. 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

What is the will of the Father? That we obey Jesus Christ. Jesus says we are to reject heretics by marking and avoiding them. The commands of the Lord are simple, but the reality of obedience is not. But we cannot be blessed by the Lord and gain eternal life without obedience.

[kenod]

Here is a good book (http://www.lighthousetrails.com/osr.htm) on Latter Rain false doctrines

Sounds good ... personal accounts always make interesting reading.

Discussing different "theologies" and examining them according to the Scriptures, is a helpful exercise. When we arbitrarily associate groups and teachers with this or that theology without carefully examining what has been specifically stated, is decidedly unhelpful.

[Christy]

I believe God wrote three Bibles.

Please provide scriptural proof of this. We can believe what we want but in effect - is it the truth? And what does the Bible in effect state if we propagate non-truths?

There are 20 other books mentioned in the Bible, but none of them are referred to as "Bibles":

The Book of the Kings of Israel - 1 Chronicles 9:1; 2 Chronicles 20:34.
The Book of the Prophet Iddo - 2 Chronicles 13:22
The Words of Shemaiah the Prophet - 2 Chronicles 12:15
The Deeds of Uzziah by Isaiah the Prophet - 2 Chronicles 26:22; 2 Chronicles 32:32
The Book of Jehu - 2 Chronicles 20:34
The Record book of Ahasuerus - Esther 2:23; Esther 6:1
The Book of Remembrance - Malachi 3:16
The Book of Life - Daniel 12:1; Philemon 4:3; Revelation 20:11; Revelation 22:19
The Book of Wars - Numbers 21:14
The Book of Jasher - Joshua 10:13
The Chronicles of David - 1 Chronicles 27:24
The Book of the Kings of Israel and Judah - 2 Chronicles 27:7; 2 Chronicles 2 Chronicles 35:27; 2 Chronicles 36:8
The Words of the Kings of Israel - 2 Chronicles 33:18.
The Decree of David the King of Israel - 2 Chronicles 35:4.
The Chronicles of Samuel the Seer - 1 Chronicles 29:29
The Chronicles of Nathan the Prophet - 1 Chronicles 29:29
The Book of Gad - 1 Chronicles 29:29
The Book of Judgment - Daniel 7:10; Revelation 20:12
The seven-sealed book - Revelation 5:1-13.
An angel's book - Revelation 10:2

What Branham was effectively stating was that it's okay for people to read their horrorscopes and look upon the mysticism and magic of the pyramids. It's the same old lie.

He wrote one in the skies, which is the zodiac.

Correction : They are rightly called constellations and the reasons why God created them:

1. To serve as signs to mark the seasons, days, and years Genesis 1:14

2. To give light upon the earth Genesis 1:15-17

3. To rule the day and the night Genesis 1:18 and so bring order to creation

4. To separate light from darkness Genesis 1:18 to distinguish between the two.

5. To declare the glory of God Psalm 19:1-6

6. To reveal His attributes to mankind, and to draw them to call upon Him Romans 1:20; Romans 10:18

7. To stabilise earth's orbit and promote life on it

Anybody knows that. Job spoke of it.

God reminded Job of His greatness by referring to the heavens, stars and constellations and all of creation.

What? Look at the zodiac. It starts off with the virgin. It ends up with Leo the lion. That's how He come, first with a virgin. His last, next coming, will be Leo the lion, see, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. And all, then, the crossed fishes, of what we're in now, the cancer age, and everything, it all speaks. But, forget it. See? That ain't your Bible.

The "zodiac" effectively doesn't start off with the Virgin, but with "Aries" (the ram) and ends not with a lion, but with "Pisces" (the fish) The above is mere speculation and man-made thumb sucking. We are now supposedly in the "Aquarian Age" - the "golden age" - which will bring in an age of "peace" and "understanding". It commenced in 1999. (according to the occultists). It goes without saying that it will eventually morph into the Tribulation period. So much for peace and understanding. It ain't gonna happen. Not until Christ returns.

Then, the pyramids, exactly how they were drawed, the headstone was rejected. Still, that's not your Bible. Then, God wrote It on Words.

Where were they drawn? Where does it state that the headstone of the pyramids was rejected. I know where you can find it though - it's on each and every $1 bill. :-) Scripture and verse please - that the headstone of the pyramid was rejected. If Branham knew where the plans for the pyramids were - he would've been in real demand as there are thousand of people who would want to lay their hands on those!

God tells us to worship Him and to look at Him. Not His creation:
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. Romans 1:25

The only reason why Branham's statement (Job naming the Zodiac) cracked me up was because he (Job) had such a hard time with all the tests and trials God brought upon him - losing everything, even his children - and then he gets blamed for naming something that is clearly occultic as well. Poor man. Instead of saying "blame it on the bunny" we can now say "Aw it was Job's fault". :-)

"The other side of the River" - cool book. Highly recommended.

[kenod]

What Branham was effectively stating was that it's okay for people to read their horrorscopes and look upon the mysticism and magic of the pyramids.

Actually, he said the exact opposite.

A Paradox, 1964 (recorded sermon)
Look at the zodiac. It starts off with the virgin. It ends up with Leo the lion. That's how He come, first with a virgin. His last, next coming, will be Leo the lion, see, coming as the Lion of the tribe of Judah. And all, then, the crossed fishes, of what we're in now, the cancer age, and everything, it all speaks. But, forget it. See? That ain't your Bible.
Then, the pyramids, exactly how they were drawed, the headstone was rejected. Still, that's not your Bible. Then, God wrote It on Words.

Earnestly Contending, 1956 (recorded sermon)
All fortune telling is of the devil

The Patriach Abraham, 1964 (recorded sermon)
A fortuneteller, anybody knows that fortune-telling is of the devil.

Have Not I Sent Thee, 1962 (recorded sermon)
First time Christ come was through the virgin. Next time He comes is through the lion of the tribe of Juda. The crossed fishes, the cancer age, and all, as you read it through, as Job studied it... And you who read the book of Job, you'll understand. Now, the devil, 'course, takes and does things with that. Then we come back to the next one they call the pyramid teaching. Don't never go after it. You got a Bible to go after.

Job named (mentioned by name) several constellations, including the "mazzaroth" (Job 38:32)

Smith's Bible Dictionary (http://www.searchgodsword.org/dic/sbd/view.cgi?number=T2881)
mazzaroth: the twelve signs.
The margin of the Authorized Version of (Job 38:32) gives Mazzaroth as the name of the twelve signs of the zodiac.

Blue Letter Bible (http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H04216&Version=kjv)
Mazzaroth: the 12 signs of the Zodiac and their 36 associated constellations

I believe that horoscopes, and all other forms of fortune telling (tarot cards, runes, ouija boards, etc) are "divination" and must be rejected and avoided by Christians.

Many things in nature - I would say 'all things' - testify concerning the truth of the Bible (eg, resurrection). We can use nature to illustrate Bible truths (Psalm 97:6; Romans 1:20) but we should not build doctrine on nature. Even the structural aspects of some man-made constructions had a spiritual significance (the ark, the temple). Some believe that the seven colours of the rainbow have a spiritual significance, and I am inclined to agree, although I would not be dogmatic about it.

[kenod]

The "zodiac" effectively doesn't start off with the Virgin, but with "Aries" (the ram) and ends not with a lion, but with "Pisces" (the fish)

That is just the traditional astrological order.

It is interesting to note that the Jewish calendar has both a sacred and a civil year. The sacred year began at the time of the passover in Egypt, and the first month is Abib/Nisan (March-April).

The civil year begins with Tishri (Sep-Oct) and this is currently year 5767, which they believe dates back to the time of the creation. The first day of 5768 is on our 13 Sep this year.

The University of Illinois (Department of Astronomy) has a good diagram and chart, which shows the sun enters the constellation known as Virgo in mid September here (http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/celsph.html)