Messages from Heaven video

[jba4241]

Between July 2nd and July 7th . . . just a couple of weeks ago . . . 628 priests from 46
countries descended upon Medjugorje, where apparitions of Mary have occurred
since the early 80's.ATYCLB, 628 out of 400,000 worldwide. You realize that, don't you? That's .15 percent of all priests. Do you have a concept of how few that is????? That means 98.5% of priests did not go there. 98.5%. You have to remember, you're dealing with a church that has 1 billion members.

Now, I have a devotion to Mary, and I have no problem with some of the alleged apparitions. But most Catholics don't have a clue about them. I just don't think you guys realize that. You focus on the stranger groups within our billion members. BILLION.

Joe

[ATYCLB]

ATYCLB, 628 out of 400,000 worldwide. You realize that, don't you? That's .15 percent of all priests. Do you have a concept of how few that is?????Do you understand how many that actually is?


Now, I have a devotion to Mary, and I have no problem with some of the alleged apparitions. But most Catholics don't have a clue about them. I just don't think you guys realize that. You focus on the stranger groups within our billion members. BILLION.And yet the World Apostolate of Fatima, the official Catholic organization established to
spread the message of Mary delivered in Fatima claims to have ""millions of members in
some 50 countries".

And who are the millions upon millions making pilgrimages to Medjugorje, Fatima, Guadalupe,
etc., every year?

And what about these guys:


The Marian Movement of Priests

History of the Marian Movement of Priests
http://www.mmp-usa.net/history_old.html

The worldwide membership of the M.M.P. now numbers at least 400 cardinals and bishops, more than 100,000 priests, and millions of religious and faithful around the world.

As of the year 2000, the M.M.P membership in the U.S. has reached sixty-three thousand, including four thousand members of the clergy - bishops, priests and deacons. Diocesan priests from all 50 states are enrolled, as well as women and men religious from hundreds of communities.

What does it mean to "consecrate oneself to the Immaculate Heart of Mary"?
http://www.mmp-usa.net/consecration_mary.html

By the act of consecration for priests and the act of consecration for the laity, which is the first commitment for belonging to the Marian Movement of Priests we put our life completely in her hands so that she may take possession of it and transform it according to her will. Once we are consecrated to her, we cannot dispose of ourselves freely - our life is given over to her completely. She orders everything in our life so that we may be led to live perfectly the Will of God.


The first membership requirement for the clergy is "that they consecrate
themselves to her Immaculate Heart." See link (http://www.mmp-usa.net/commit_clergy_2.html).

This consecration involves putting their lives "completely in her hands so that she may
take possession of it".

This requirement is based on visions of Mary who said, "Since they have consecrated
themselves to me, they belong to me; they are mine. If they are mine, they can no longer
belong to themselves; they can no longer possess anything that is not my very self."

If they've consecrated themselves to Mary, they've put their lives "completely in her hands"
and allowed her to "take possession of it".

"They are mine," she says, and "can no longer possess anything that is not my very self."

Now, statistics from CARA (Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate, Georgetown University):

405,450 total priests worldwide (as of 2004).
http://cara.georgetown.edu/bulletin/index.htm

If the MMP's own statistics are correct and not inflated, then that would mean
well over 25% of priests worldwide are part of this movement . . . all based on
visions of Mary.

[Doxiemom]

Why would the Father send Mary to preach a different message than what is already Written?

We have the Revelation of Jesus Christ. While our eyes have been opened further into it's absolute Truth, it is just that- the Truth. What is Written will be.

The mistake of the RCC is that it has chosen to see this message from Christ (through His messanger angel) only in terms as allegory concerning itself. Not Israel.

It is sad for Catholics for they are mssing out on the really good stuff while the RCC encourages them to seek after an imitation. And, without insult to anyone personlly, imitation is the stuff of Lucifer.

I encourage all catholics to leave these "appartions" behind and read the Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ to John and get a good book that explains it as the real prophecy it is.

But, beware, your priest may not like you to do this. I know. Once, when it mattered to me, I had a priest tell us from the pulpit to "get our heads out of the Bible and just listen to him" in response to a lot of end time questions.

[hvnaw8s]

Wow...
That was really, really good! :thumb

[icebear]

its not a bad little video. i had first found it from Jan Markel's site after finding her on Oneplace.com

i have found a lot of great stuff through Jan's links and resources.

[jba4241]

Do you understand how many that actually is?No, ATYCLB, I guess I don't. I even made an error. It means 99.85 percent of priests did not go. No matter how you want to look at it, it's a very very very small minority of all priest. Negligible, I'd say

And yet the World Apostolate of Fatima, the official Catholic organization established to spread the message of Mary delivered in Fatima claims to have ""millions of members in some 50 countries".Again, let's put that into perspective. 100 million (And I'm quite certain there's not even half of that) out of 1 billion Catholics is 10 percent. So 10 percent of Catholics "may" be members. That still leaves 90 percent who aren't.

And who are the millions upon millions making pilgrimages to Medjugorje, Fatima, Guadalupe, etc., every year?Probably the same 100 million from the statistic above. People with devotion to Mary tend to belong to many of the same groups.

And what about these guys... If the MMP's own statistics are correct and not inflated, then that would mean well over 25% of priests worldwide are part of this movement . . . all based on visions of Mary.I think you said it right there. "If...statistics are correct and not inflated." I have a feeling they're inflated since I've never heard a single priest in my Diocese mention it. But for argument's sake, I'll take that 25% or priests as true. I stand by the fact that 75% of priests do not belong!!

The whole point is so many of you -- in fact, most of you here -- will post this stuff and make the gigantic implication that "the Catholic Church teaches..." or "Catholics believe..." based on either .015% of priests or, in the case of the MMP, 25% of priests. You can't do that. It's not accurate. You're dealing with the minority.

Now, having said that, let me reiterate. I have no problem with devotion to Mary (and the saints), and I would have no problem consecrating myself to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In fact, I did one time at a Fatima conference. I do have a devotion to Mary! I'm not afraid to admit that at all.

My devotion to Mary has never once, not a single time, not for a single second, detracted from my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Never. It has simply enriched my entire spiritual life, and enforced my belief that Jesus is God, that Jesus is my Redeemer, and that Jesus is my Savior. I know that Jesus paid the price for my sin on the Cross. I know that Jesus atoned for my sins by his death. I know that Jesus arose triumphant from the grave and now sits at the Right Hand of the Father. I know that Jesus is coming again (very soon, I suspect.) And, yet, I have a strong devotion to Mary. And a great percentage of those people you are soooo concerned with would say exactly the same thing.

Joe

[funmudder]

Good video. :thumb

[ATYCLB]

it's a very very very small minority of all priest. Negligible, I'd say628 priests. How many churches does that equal? How many people in those flocks?

Hardly negligible.


Again, let's put that into perspective. 100 million (And I'm quite certain there's not even half of that) out of 1 billion Catholics is 10 percent. So 10 percent of Catholics "may" be members. That still leaves 90 percent who aren't. But millions are.

My perspective is clear.


I think you said it right there. "If...statistics are correct and not inflated." I have a feeling they're inflated since I've never heard a single priest in my Diocese mention it.Are you suggesting that these priests, your spiritual leaders, are lying?


But for argument's sake, I'll take that 25% or priests as true. I stand by the fact that 75% of priests do not belong!!Oh, for goodness sakes. I stand by the fact that, according to their statistics, 75%
don't belong.

But that doesn't change the fact that 25% of your spiritual leaders claim to have put
their lives "completely in her hands so that she may take possession of it".


The whole point is so many of you -- in fact, most of you here -- will post this stuff and make the gigantic implication that "the Catholic Church teaches..." or "Catholics believe..." based on either .015% of priests or, in the case of the MMP, 25% of priests. You can't do that. It's not accurate. You're dealing with the minority.Unless the RCC has denounced these priests, then yes, I can do that.
And, yes, it's more than accurate.

If they've consecrated themselves to Mary, they've put their lives
"completely in her hands" and allowed her to "take possession of it".

"They are mine," she says, and "can no longer possess anything that
is not my very self."

"Once we are consecrated to her, we cannot dispose of ourselves freely -
our life is given over to her completely. She orders everything in our life
so that we may be led to live perfectly the Will of God."

What do these things mean to you?


I would have no problem consecrating myself to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. In fact, I did one time at a Fatima conference.

You put your life "completely in her hands"?

You allowed her to "take possession of it"?

You are hers and "can no longer possess anything that is not" your very self?

Your "life is given over to her completely"?

"She orders everything in" your life?


My devotion to Mary has never once, not a single time, not for a single second, detracted from my personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.Help me understand your devotion to Mary and how it relates to this line from
the International Hymn of the MMP, found here (http://www.mmp-usa.net/hymn.html), which says:

"Immaculate Heart of Holy Mary.
You are the light and way."

when Jesus said:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
John 14:6

[ATYCLB]

Just wanted to come back to this:

ATYCLB, 628 out of 400,000 worldwide. You realize that, don't you? That's .15 percent of all priests. Do you have a concept of how few that is?????

No matter how you want to look at it, it's a very very very small minority of all priest. Negligible, I'd sayI just can't understand why you believe that 628 priests would be "negligible".

All it took was one man with a group of twelve followers to change the world.

[jba4241]

Just wanted to come back to this:

I just can't understand why you believe that 628 priests would be "negligible".

All it took was one man with a group of twelve followers to change the world.Well, that "one man" was no ordinary man! A priest is an ordinary man.

ATYCLB, I say it's negligible in the numbers. 628 divided by 400,000 priests worldwide is less than a half a percent. It's .015 percent. That one man you talked about with his 12 followers? 8 percent of his followers fell away.

My point on this numbers game is that you want to infer that all or most Catholics are deceived by Marian Devotion, when, in fact, by all these numbers that have been thrown out it's a small percentage. Every family has it's strange ducks, ATYCLB. Yes, some of the priests and some of the Catholic laity are going to do and believe strange things. Surely you understand what I mean here.

I think because most of the posters here go to independent churches, they think in those terms. But when you're dealing with Catholicism, you're talking 1 billion people.

Not only that, ATYCLB, I expect there to be a falling away in these end times. As a Catholic, I take the falling away to happen to Catholic people. That's why I test everything against Scripture & Tradition (something I know non-Catholics don't do, but I need to mention we do). And if something comes out that's against Scripture & Tradition together, then I reject it. Devotion to the Mary is a 2,000 year tradition with our church. I don't fear it. I fear some of the extreme devotees of Mary, especially with some of the stuff you news slueths find. But I know at this point it is a small minority in the Church.

Joe