The Masons & Freemasonry

[Racheal59]

No, nothing about Mormons.

[Kieffers4Christ]

Oh my gosh!!! My husband and I tuned in so excited to compare the two!!! (Mormons and Freemasons) and we both FELL ASLEEP!!!!! I guess thats what you get when you wake up at 4 am!! lol
So now I have to find the broadcast on youtube hopefully!! Oh, the parts I did see, they didn't have to say ANYTHING about mormons- because being an ex mormon, I already saw the parallels between the two on what I did watch! Like the outfits in the secret temple ceremony- the hand shakes. (We did a lot of those in the temple too)

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/momo-handshake4_500.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/momo-handshake3_500.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/momo-handshake2_500.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/momo-handshake1_500.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/joseph_smith.jpgInstructions given by Joseph Smith:

"Doctrine & Covenants" Section 129:
1 There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones;
2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear;
7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.
8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

Joseph Smith, Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843. History of the Church 5:267.

[Kieffers4Christ]

Freemason handshakes:
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/acodex_62.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/surrender92/acodex_61.jpg

Look familiar?

[Kamatu]

LOL. Why do people think that they need to use the tactics of Satan (the father of lies) to defend the Gospel and Church of Jesus Christ? If you think that Masons have their own god, their own theology, their own path to salvation or any of the other trappings of a religion, you are sadly mistaken.

Mister "I'm 44", I'm 45 and it is trivial to see that you haven't done much primary research at all, if any. I'm amused that the same lies persist for decades, being repackaged for sale by hucksters who need to fund their "ministries" for a donation, of course, to their tax free organizations. Dan Brown is a prodigy by antiMasonic standards.

Let us take Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma, the secondhand source of many of these most interesting lies (most of the rest are from proven forgeries, another "secret" antiMasons don't reveal). Note that the size of this book puts it on par with the Bible as being an encyclopedic work, which means I can "prove" anything by quoting out of context. For example, look at Matthew 5:38, by simply quoting that verse, said by Jesus, I can spin all kinds of heretical stuff out about Jesus being for that kind of action, as long as nobody looks at the context, which is common among readers of antiMasonic tripe. Besides being out of context and/or edited quotes (as anyone who did the primary research would have noticed), one of the "secrets" of "occult" Freemasonry written by the "supreme" authority of Freemasonry remains carefully hidden by the antiMasons. It refutes their cause as do the other "secrets" they choose not to reveal in their books that are available for a donation.

From the preface of Morals and Dogma: The teachings of these Readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those of other domains of Thought and Truth. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite uses the word "Dogma" in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term. Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound. It is only required of him that he shall weigh what is taught, and give it fair hearing and unprejudiced judgment. Of course, the ancient theosophic and philosophic speculations are not embodied as part of the doctrines of the Rite; but because it is of interest and profit to know what the Ancient Intellect thought upon these subjects, and because nothing so conclusively proves the radical difference between our human and the animal nature, as the capacity of the human mind to entertain such speculations in regard to itself and the Deity. Emphasis mine.

Oh my. All that, even if it is actually sourced correctly (very rarely), isn't required for Freemasons to believe! Oh yeah, that book is only for a small percentage of Masons who join the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, not ALL Freemasons as the antiMason implies heavily. Amazing the joys of primary research.

Oh, what does old Hank H. have to say?

IS MASONRY OCCULTIC?

Mysterious symbols. Secret rites. Hidden teachings. Is this an accurate portrayal of what Freemasonry is all about? Is Masonry really occultic?

With close to 34,000 lodges around the globe and a membership numbering upwards of 6 million, it is obvious why the Encyclopedia Britannica would dub Freemasonry as the largest world-wide secret society. But just because something is secret does not necessarily mean that it’s occultic. In fact, the majority of Freemasons contend that their organization has no occultic elements whatsoever. However, the deeper we dig into the recesses of Masonic teaching, the more reprehensible the picture becomes.

Christian author John Weldon lists five ways in which Freemasonry fosters occultic involvement among its members: First, Freemasonry supports the now-popular New Age dictum that man houses within himself unlimited power that can be unlocked using specific procedures. Second, Freemasonry espouses a philosophy and a system of symbols which bear a striking resemblance to many of the occultic arts — for example kabbalism, Rosicrucianism, and hermetic philosophy. Third, Freemasonry encourages its members to discover the deeper significance (or “esoteric truths”) lying beneath its ceremonies and symbols. Fourth, Freemasonry promotes the development of altered states of consciousness, an exercise rooted in mysticism. Finally, a number of Masons regard their organization as the vehicle that will lead the world into an age of occultic enlightenment.

“Why are so many Masons unaware of this side of Freemasonry?,” one may well ask. The reason is that a large portion of Masons seldom strive to advance beyond the initial ranks or degrees offered within their organization. But as one progresses to higher degrees, more and more details about the underlying foundations of Masonic ideology are gradually revealed, including its occultic dimensions. It is therefore imperative that we warn others about the dangers brewing beneath the surface of the Masonic Lodge.

On Masonry and the occult, that’s the CRI Perspective. I’m Hank Hanegraaff.

Same crappy sources that promote the usual lies, but let’s check on Hank’s five points:
1) Really, news to me, but it is interesting how antiMasons have so penetrated the “secrets” of Freemasonry that they can always manage to teach something new to Masons about Masonry.
2) Striking or vague? Yes, some symbols are common, but then the cross itself has some pagan interpretations and this says what about the Christian interpretation?
3) News to me, as usual. This one can be considered as having a grain of truth though. There is some urging to think on the meaning of certain symbols, but the meanings are explained, not the attempted New Age link (it was Satanic in earlier decades). For example, the compasses (of Square & Compasses fame) are a symbol to remind Masons to circumscribe their actions and keep their passions within due bounds. Definitely not New Age meditations for esoteric meaning stuff.
4) News to me, never ever heard of this. This is really a fall out of the chair moment, imagining some of the Masons I know doing trance meditation.
5) Okay, some “number of Masons” believe this. Since all the secrets are open to the dedicated antiMason (otherwise they couldn’t make their pronouncements with any authority), what number? Can it be stated as a percentage or raw number? Can we get an estimate closer than one to some millions?

Of course, the usual ending of how sincere, devoted Christians, even theologians, ministers and apologists, men of intellectual attainment and spiritual discernment stay members of Freemasonry. How can this be? AHA! They are too stupid and/or ignorant to notice this “problem” with Masonry, even though they are far better qualified than the antiMason is. Oh yeah, if the Mason doesn’t accept this without question, then he just hasn’t “gone far enough” in the degree system to "see" the "obvious" ways in which a fraternal/social group is an antiChristian religion. That’s it, case closed.

Let's see, on one hand we have C.H. Spurgeon, the "Prince of Preachers", who has no antiMasonic commentary and the only mentions of Freemasonry in his sermons are that believers should act more like ideal Masons should. On the other hand, we have Larry Kunk, of Ephesians5:11 who advises that you should run a stealth campaign on a Mason to ambush him by surprise to be able to witness to him. LOL, so much for bold declaration of the Gospel.

I will tell you one thing, in this maze of antiMasonry, ignorance, conspiracy theories and lies, I was tempted by sin. It tempted me to leave Masonry because of the works of the antiMasons. It tempted me to then go on a full press apologetic of Masonry to root out these lies told to "defend" the Gospel and Church. Then I realized that would take away from the things I need to do for God.

Scriptures to ponder: Luke 16:10 - If they will lie about something to make money, what else will they lie about?

Matthew 7:17-18 - Amazing how the "evil/corrupt" tree of Freemasonry brings forth good fruits (works) in contradiction to Jesus' teachings.

Of course, up next any other social group: like the Rotary, AA, the local bowling league and even some church groups I've seen in my life.

On a somber note, the ignorance that permeates this thread showed up here recently in reverse. A son was asked if his dying father knew Christ and the son replied that of course his father knew Christ, he is a Mason. That is both heartwarming in one sense and sad in another. The outward charitable works of Masons being equated with Christian actions is good, but the lack of knowledge that made this son think that a fraternity equaled an inward personal relationship with the Son is so very sad.

[Buzzardhut]

The Albert Pike that worshipped Lucifer?
Please read the entire thread before you post your comments, it's free:)

[BlessedinHim]

I had family in that stuff, and one was being introduced into it, and he left because he had to say that he was the I AM, and there is only one I AM. That is anti-biblical, and reason enough to step out of it.

They do horrible oaths that no one should do.

I pray you open your eyes and see with your spiritual eyes the darkness that freemasonry has as an undercurrent.

Jesus said that even earthly fathers who are evil know how to give good gifts.....

As a christian, we should not be doing secret things behind closed doors. Those things done in secret will be shouted out on the rooftops. What ever you do in secret now, will be known later to everyone.

Evil does not like the light, or its evil works would be revealed.

[Newborn]

What BlessedinHim said. Very well stated.

[Zaphnathpaaneah]

Let us take Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma...., Note that the size of this book puts it on par with the Bible as being an encyclopedic work.....

So the writings of Pike are "on par" with the BIBLE as being an "encyclopedic" work????????????

REALLY?

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6 (NKJV)

When is the last time you went up to the "WORSHIPFUL MASTER" of your "lodge" and told him this? Then you went and witnessed the same to every one of your lodge "brothers"?

I bet you haven't. Why? Because you wouldn't last very long there if you did. Everyone there is just there to worship "god" (whichever generic god they want) and the GOSPEL just can't get in the way of that.



"Thus by the very honor which Masonry pays to the Bible, it teaches us to revere every book of faith in which men find help for today and hope for the morrow, joining hands with the man of Islam as he takes his oath on the Koran, and with the Hindu as he makes covenant with God upon the book he loves best".

from The Words of A Great Masonic Divine by Joseph Fort Newton


Let me guess, I'm just taking this all out of context, right?

[seekingtruth1]

I do know that some of our American founders were in freemason.




It no surprise that some of their designs seem similiar to freemasonary (I am sure that's where they got their ideas.)

Many of our senators and church leaders are freemasons!

[Kamatu]

I'm going to repost my opening comment to keep in fresh in your minds:LOL. Why do people think that they need to use the tactics of Satan (the father of lies) to defend the Gospel and Church of Jesus Christ? If you think that Masons have their own god, their own theology, their own path to salvation or any of the other trappings of a religion, you are sadly mistaken.

The Albert Pike that worshipped Lucifer?
Please read the entire thread before you post your comments, it's free:)

Did that already. By your opening comment, you have shown that you haven't done any primary research on the matter. I've read Morals and Dogma, which includes the relevant portions about the "Lucifer" issue. I'd suggest you look up Leo Taxil, who created the Lucifer worshiping myth.

If you want some comments on some of your comments: A) you obviously consider any Freemason a liar, since you only link to antiMasonic sites (while other links by proMasonic posters are edited out). Some fairly radical ones too.
B) You've used out of context quotes, many from Morals and Dogma (I recognize the style). I'd suggest you search for "Preface Morals and Dogma", it is available online. FWIW, I read Morals and Dogma many years ago, it is dated, was somewhat interesting and wasn't worth the time of reading through such dense prose. But go find the preface, read it and come back and tell me why the disclaimers (and others in Masonic writings) are never "noticed" by antiMasons.
C) You are ignorant of a great many things relating to Freemasonry, including its philosophies and rituals.
D) Amusingly enough, you cite as a "proof" link, someone who has a "ministry" that requires you to make a donation just to get this "truth" they have.
E) You even make out of context quotes from the Bible. Remember that context is not only literary. Soooo, when there is a problem with the Corinthians continuing to do pagan worship rituals, there is an appropriate condemnation by Paul. Then you stretch that to any fellowship with any unbeliever. How is life on the commune?
F) You conflate Mormons and Masonry incorrectly. Facts, the leaders of the Mormons became Masons in Illinois, there was a controversy and the Masonic lodges with Mormons were shut down, subsequently Mormonism showed many similar rituals to Masonry.

FYI, the vast majority of your "Masonry is a religion" quotes by Masons who are supposedly speaking for all of Masonry (no Mason can speak for all of Freemasonry, only a Grandmaster can speak for his jurisdiction while he is in office) don't say what you think they do. Masonry's "religion" is that of general revelation, not special revelation. This means Freemasonry does not address the special revelation of any religion. For Christians, this means the Word of God as given to us in the Bible. It is simply not discussed, like it isn't discussed by the members of a sports club who open with a prayer for the safety of the players and fans. Before you say that it must be in everything we do as Christians (it does at one level), I'd ask you to define how directly it must be in everything and then produce a list of physical activities for your opinion of how you do so.

I had family in that stuff, and one was being introduced into it, and he left because he had to say that he was the I AM, and there is only one I AM. That is anti-biblical, and reason enough to step out of it.

They do horrible oaths that no one should do.

I pray you open your eyes and see with your spiritual eyes the darkness that freemasonry has as an undercurrent.

Jesus said that even earthly fathers who are evil know how to give good gifts.....

As a christian, we should not be doing secret things behind closed doors. Those things done in secret will be shouted out on the rooftops. What ever you do in secret now, will be known later to everyone.

Evil does not like the light, or its evil works would be revealed.

Three points, 1) I've never seen that bit of Masonic ritual. I've seen it sourced to the York Rite, but I'm not a member, so I don't know. Interestingly enough, for at least some of the degrees in the York Rite, being a Christian is a requirement....

2) I suppose you air your family's, church's and job's dirty laundry publicly everywhere, correct? No privacy at all? Not even if your job included keeping classified information for national security reasons?

3) Ummm, what evil works? I've been pointing out a good bit of darkness in these two posts and I don't see much looking for light while seeing a good bit of lies and slander.

So the writings of Pike are "on par" with the BIBLE as being an "encyclopedic" work????????????

REALLY?

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 14:6 (NKJV)

When is the last time you went up to the "WORSHIPFUL MASTER" of your "lodge" and told him this? Then you went and witnessed the same to every one of your lodge "brothers"?

I bet you haven't. Why? Because you wouldn't last very long there if you did. Everyone there is just there to worship "god" (whichever generic god they want) and the GOSPEL just can't get in the way of that.



"Thus by the very honor which Masonry pays to the Bible, it teaches us to revere every book of faith in which men find help for today and hope for the morrow, joining hands with the man of Islam as he takes his oath on the Koran, and with the Hindu as he makes covenant with God upon the book he loves best".

from The Words of A Great Masonic Divine by Joseph Fort Newton


Let me guess, I'm just taking this all out of context, right?

You obviously don't understand what I wrote:
Works of encyclopedic scope aim to convey the important accumulated knowledge for their subject domain, such as an encyclopedia of medicine, philosophy, or law. Works vary in the breadth of material and the depth of discussion, depending on the target audience.

Less fancily, it means a book containing a whole lot of information, which makes it great for "proving" anything by misquoting it. It has nothing to do with the quality of the information in the book itself.

Now, do you or do you not think that the Bible is an encyclopedic work that conveys important accumulated knowledge (of God in this case) for the subject domain (of God and our relationship to Him in this case)?

FYI, they would all go "AMEN!" to that verse. I don't have to run up and ask them or tell them, it is easy enough to see by their conduct and speech. Speaking about any religion in a lodge is only prohibited while a meeting is in progress, there is no such ban at any other time. Oh, why is it prohibited? Because it would be inappropriate, the same as it would be in many other situations.

You seem to be laboring under a common misapprehension by your capitalization of Worshipful Master. Languages change and the words don't always mean the same thing, for example the charity/love discussion earlier in the thread.

wor·ship·ful (initial capital letter) British. a formal title of honor used in announcing or mentioning certain highly regarded or respected persons or groups (usually prec. by the).

Modern Freemasonry was created by the formation of the first Grand Lodge in 1717 in......England. The correct title for the office of the presiding officer of a lodge is the Worshipful Master. Like the correct form of address for a judge is Your Honor.

In a similar amusing vein about language changes, one of the "proofs" I've seen offered that Masonry is a religion is that all lodges have "deacons" (yes, we have two offices with the title of deacon) so they must be churches. Of course, we also have two "wardens" so does that make Masonic lodges prisons also?

I haven't read any of Joseph Fort Newton's works that I am aware of. I do note that he was a minister who wrote a number of books and articles. Let me correct myself, I've read a few of his shorter articles now. So as to whether you quoted out of context or not, I'd guess yes. If nothing else, because it is an excellent example of one of the "proof" quotes used so often by the antiMasons which totally ignores the category error it makes. Freemasonry makes no comment on any special revelation by any holy book of any religion. So, by definition, the official Masonic organizational stance on any holy book is neutral. That judgment is reserved for the individual Mason to decide on.

Of course, you can always judge for yourself:
Every Mason ought not only to honour the Bible as a great Light of
the Craft; he ought to read it, live with it, love it, lay its truth to
heart and learn what it means to be a man. There is something in
the old Book which, if it gets into a man, makes him both gentle
and strong, faithful and free, obedient and tolerant, adding to his
knowledge virtue, patience, temperance, self-control, brotherly
love, and pity. The Bible is as high as the sky and as deep as the
grave; its two great characters are God and the Soul, and the story
of their eternal life together is its everlasting romance. It is the
most human of books, telling us the half-forgotten secrets of our
own hearts, our sins, our sorrows, our doubts, our hopes. It is the
most Divine of books, telling us that God has made us for Himself,
and that our hearts will be restless, unhappy and lonely until we
learn to rest in Him whose Will is our peace.

From BROTHERS and BUILDERS:, The Basis and Spirit of Freemasonry.
BY: JOSEPH FORT NEWTON

Now does all this mean that that Freemasonry isn't a Christian organization. Well, duh. Neither is my doctors' clinics, any employment I've had or any of several other groups I have belonged to.

I will tell you something the antiMasons won't. It is a Masonic duty to tell any man that if he feels that Freemasonry will conflict with his religious beliefs that he should either not join or should leave Masonry. Oh wait, we are a Satanic control cult that brainwashes and dupes our membership! :doh

How did we get it so wrong? We are telling people to leave if they want to.