The Masons & Freemasonry

[Chaos]

Well then, thank you!

[triumphantlamb]

Shriners are Scottish Rite. They're the ones that go to the 32/33 degree. After your 3rd degree in Freemasonry, you can do additional things, such as Scottish Rite or Knights Templar.

[jckliew]

So, is it two Freemason/"Christians" here, Kamatu and jckliew? (I suspect there are a couple more here at RR.)

So, you guys are okay worshiping at the same altar with the idolaters and those that worship false gods? All religions lead to the same G.A.O.T.U.?

i think Kamatu has already confessed he is one.

As for me, you are making a false witness aganist me. You could not be further from the Truth. i do not worship a god called yah bul on..... :shocked

Did talking against Ellel got on your tails? i am just tellin yer what happened when they visited my place. They cant show from scriptures. BUT they have lotsa experience... :scratch

[Jennie]

I found a former Mason's testimony and it's very insightful

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/washum.htm

Testimony of Duane Washum
Past Worshipful Master

I submitted a petition to the Lodge and was initiated in the Entered Apprentice Degree, passed to the degree of Fellowcraft, and was soon raised to the degree of Master Mason. I felt that I had attained to the finest fraternity in the world. I was selected by the Worshipful Master of the Lodge to serve as Junior Steward and later honored by serving as Chaplain. My studies in ritual and degree work continued as Junior Warden and then Senior Warden. I finally became Worshipful Master of the largest Lodge in the state of Nevada.

I believed myself to be a member of a fraternity that stood for God, country, and family. But, after five years of total dedication, I withdrew from the Order. It didn’t happen overnight. My first questioning of Freemasonry was in regard to the obligation I took when I was initiated. One is made to swear secrecy to the point that bloody penalties of death are involved. It was explained that this was symbolic and only emphasized that what I had gleaned was not public information.

My next moment of confusion came when I was Junior Steward. A member was in the habit of talking during lodge meetings. This was disruptive but not a big problem. What was a problem, I thought, was his use of God’s name in vain. One evening this terminology was used four or five times in a short period. I later told him that if he used those words in the Lodge room again, I was going to file Masonic charges against him. The reaction of the members who overheard was very confusing. Some approached me and mildly chastised me for the way I had approached him. But it was the reaction of the majority of the members that caught me off guard. They reminded me that he is a Past Master, and a Grand Lodge Officer. He was not wrong in using God’s name in vain. Rather, I had affronted a Past Master and a Grand Lodge Officer.

All ritual work in Masonry is committed to memory and repeated verbatim, including prayers. At first I did not notice that none of the prayers are in the name of Jesus Christ. "Great Architect of the Universe," "Almighty Father of the Universe," "Judge Supreme," "God," and "Lord," yes, but never in the name of "Jesus Christ."

Don't mention Jesus again
Being Chaplain, saying grace for a meal was my duty. Since there is no specified prayer, the prayer was my own, and I prayed in the name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I was soon told that we never pray in the name of Jesus Christ for it would be offensive to our Jewish members. I then became aware that there is no mention of Jesus Christ in any of the prayers or in the ritual book.

One evening, I asked about the inconsistency involved for the Jewish member in having the Bible resting on our altar. I was informed that it did not necessarily have to be the Bible. It could be the Koran, the Rig Veda, or even the Book of Mormon. What sacred writing was on the altar would depend upon the religious persuasion of the lodge. So, it really didn’t matter if the Lodge had any Jewish member or not. The important thing was not to pray in the name of Jesus Christ!

A proposed major undertaking that would involve a great deal of money was made into a motion and defeated, much to the dissatisfaction of the Master. Without notice, it was brought up again, this time in a stacked meeting. ‘The motion passed. I made an objection to the Master and told him that what he was doing prostituted the dignity of his office. I found myself "wrong", because the Worshipful Master is always right.

Both of my confrontations began to consume my thoughts. I was morally right, but I was made to feel that I was wrong. By opposing the Worshipful Master I was, in the eyes of some, committing blasphemy!

Despite this, I was able to be elected as the next Worshipful Master. I soon found myself questioning things, including my title. Was I really a Worshipful Master? By whose authority? I never considered myself to be master over anybody, and I certainly wasn’t worshipful.

The Rosicrucian Connectionsm
I was in a local Christian bookstore and found a book I was interested in, The Kingdom of the Cults, by Walter Martin. This was of interest to me because of stories regarding Mormonism and Joseph Smith. He was reported to have been a Mason and to have pirated signs, grips, and Masonic ritual work and incorporated them into the Mormon Temple rituals. But, when I turned to the table of contents, it was like someone hit me with a baseball bat.

Listed was the Rosicrucian Fellowship, a group my brother had been studying. He told me how there had been an organization known as The Great White Brotherhood of Man, and out of this came the Rosicrucians, and out of the Rosicrucians came the Masonic Order. For the first time I was seeing Rosicrucian Fellowship in print and it was in a book about cults.

I remember how, after becoming a Mason, I had mentioned it to a man in my church. He said, "So you joined the Masonic cult." I said to myself, "He doesn’t understand." And now it looked like I was to find out who understood and who didn’t. Now there were three words racing through my mind: "Rosicrucianism," "Masonry," and "cult." I turned to the section about Rosicrucians and the reference to Masonry. "It (Rosicrucians) was by admission a secret society. It flourished in a day when secret societies were in vogue, and a century after its origin, Rosicrucianism underwent a recrudescence in connection with Freemasonry, which not only deemed Rosicrucianism genuine, but even borrowed usages and customs from the writings of those who had satirized the fraternity."

Every question that had previously troubled me about Masonry came back to me. A cold shiver went through me. I began praying to God for wisdom to know the truth. I placed a phone call to Christian Research Institute, and I told of my concern about Freemasonry. They said they would send me a booklet which might be helpful, Freemasonry and Christianity by Alva J. McClain.

That night, I shared my concerns with a Christian friend. He taught me about blood oaths, secular humanism, and other things.

The next two weeks found me in extreme turmoil. I would think about the discussions with my Christian friend but then I would read from my Masonic Bible. Everything I would read seemed beautiful and I could see no wrong in it. My family’s Masonic background, the relationships I had with other Masons, and the beauty and dignity of Masonic ritual were all going through my mind. I was beginning to think that maybe my friend, like the man before, just didn’t understand.

Coming out of the lodge
Finally, I went to my knees and once again asked the Lord to show me the truth. It roared across my mind. "Blood Oath." I recalled my uneasiness with the oath of secrecy, and Jesus’ admonition to "make no oath at all" (Mat. 5:34). ‘That week the secretary of Vegas Lodge No. 32 received my letter of withdrawal. I received a call from a Past Master who asked me why I was withdrawing. I told him I was a Christian, and shared my thoughts with him, including Scriptures from the Bible. He explained to me that I shouldn’t believe everything I read in the Bible and that Christianity was a religion that the men in power at the time came up with to keep the common people in line. Then he said, "After all, Duane, our dad, uncle, grand dad, and great-grand-dad were all Masons." The Past Master extolling the virtues of Freemasonry and attacking my faith in Jesus Christ was my own brother.

My letter of withdrawal was held for over a month, but now there is a paper in my home titled, "Certificate for a Brother Dropped from the Rolls at His Own Request. "After Christ endured indescribable pain and suffering for my sins, I could not rationalize staying in the lodge because of the difficulties I would have encountered had I resigned. Besides, to stay in Masonry would mean to deny Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior in my prayers.

I have prayed for forgiveness and know that God has answered my prayers; not because I am worthy, but because of His grace and love, and because Jesus Christ IS my Lord and Savior.

[TomSki]

i think Kamatu has already confessed he is one.

As for me, you are making a false witness aganist me. You could not be further from the Truth. i do not worship a god called yah bul on..... :shocked

Did talking against Ellel got on your tails? i am just tellin yer what happened when they visited my place. They cant show from scriptures. BUT they have lotsa experience... :scratch

:hide My apologies.

[Kamatu]

Does anyone here know what the difference is between a 32 and 33-degree mason? I've been wondering for a long time. I know a 32-degree mason, but am afraid to ask him. He may not even know.

I can give you some information from the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite, USA. To my understanding it is similar to other independent Scottish Rite jurisdictions. More relevant to this thread, it is the one Albert Pike was in charge of, so it is the one that antimasons attack, even though how the degrees and methods of conferring them can vary quite a bit in other SR jurisdictions as well as the internal organization.

Anyone can become a 32d degree SR Mason if you are a Master Mason (3d) if they want to. They can also join other groups besides the Scottish Rite or no other group at all (the majority of Freemasons don't join the appendant bodies). These degrees are conferred twice a year usually in a weekend or three, depending on how many degrees are actually put on instead of just communicated (acted out instead of merely read to the candidate). This entitles you to wear a black hat.

Now this is a little off the top of my head, I've heard of it, but have not inquired into the exact details, so for example I don't know if the balloting is done by raising hands or a ballot box or what.

Then comes the 32d KCCH, which if voted on by the members of the KCCH in the local group as an honor for the 32d degree SR Masons who have consistently performed to the credit of the local group. Serving as an officer, being a member of a degree team, helping out with SR functions, helping with charities, etc. are supposed to be considered. This is the red hat. I think this one is peculiar to the Southern Jurisdiction.

Then comes the 33d degree honorary (although most of this crowd doesn't know the difference and the ones who do simply use it to reduce the number of "insiders" even further), which is again voted on by the local 33d degree SR Masons as an honor to those who have performed outstanding service to the Scottish Rite, by whatever standards they use. This is the white hat.

Then there are two types of 33d degree SR Mason, the ones with the white hat with a red band who serve in areas not large enough for a purple hat 33d degree SR Mason who is the representative of that state (In the USA, Grand Lodges occupy the same areas as states.) to the Supreme Council. I'm not sure how the purple hats get their job, but the white/red stripe guys get appointed by the Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, AASR, SJ.

[Kamatu]

I have a question that I would think to be on-topic.

The Shriners are interconnected with freemasonry are they not?
Such as the children's Shriner circus..?

When I see one, I usually see the other, I grew up in a village that prospered off of the Masons. Though I share the thought that they are a cult. I have some interesting stories pertaining to their inner sanctum and worship halls too, being a nosey kid. lol

Yes. Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. A.A.O.N.M.S.

That is why they are called Shriners and the joke when they were formed in 1870 was that the initials are an anagram for A MASON.

Until several years ago, one had to become a Master Mason, then join and complete either the Scottish Rite or York Rite degrees, then you could become a Shriner. Ugh, it may have been about ten years ago, I forget now, they Shriners eliminated the need for Scottish Rite or York Rite membership and you only have to be a Master Mason. Give them a few years and they will probably eliminate that requirement too.

Nosey kid stories should be fun since I shocked the lodge members before I got my degrees by helping them set up and tear down the lodge and chapter. Of course, I did it for several years as a kid since my father was the secretary of the lodge and a wheel in the chapter. However, since you know about worship halls (which I've never heard a Mason refer to) and what seems to be some kind of extra room that is an inner sanctum (which I've never seen in a lodge), it might be interesting to see what group you are talking about.

[TomSki]

Kamatu, can you explain why this Masonic site (http://www.masonicinfo.com/lucifer.htm) cannot deny the importance of Lucifer to you Freemasons?

[Kamatu]

Well, I can see that laziness and lack of reading comprehension are still the strong points among antimasons. I think virtually all of this is covered and remains unrefuted in the previous locked threads, let alone covered in the points in my previous post, but it seems to make you guys happy to gossip and tell tall tales without letting the truth ruin a good story, so here we go.

Maybe some of you can listen hard enough (it helps to turn up your speakers too loud with no input) and you can say I was hissssssing at you.

So, is it two Freemason/"Christians" here, Kamatu and jckliew? (I suspect there are a couple more here at RR.)

So, you guys are okay worshiping at the same altar with the idolaters and those that worship false gods? All religions lead to the same G.A.O.T.U.?

AFAIK, jckliew isn't a Freemason. Yes, you can play your favorite conspiracy theory music, there are more than one of us here.

BTW, I don't belong to an organization that does either of the things you ask about, so why are you attempting to do a "have you stopped beating your wife" ploy? 9th Commandment my friend. (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=52052)

BTW, just curious, did you actually read what you referenced about Anton LaVey or is this just more gossip? Dan Brown (among others) says some interesting things about Jesus Christ, are you going to cut and run on that too? IIRC, either LaVey or Crowley, I think Crowley, actually managed to join a lodge, but got kicked out rather quickly.

1 degree? LOL, funny.

Don't forget us Knights Templar :hide

I'm not sure if one of the others is York Rite or not, so I cannot be sure if the Knights Templar have joined us. Although of historical interest, regardless of the actual derivation of the Freemasons, it appears to me that they were very familiar with the Rule of the Knights Templar. Of course, I'd bet that most of the posters here, if they belong to a good church with sound doctrine, would be shocked to find out how much they owe to the Rule of the Knights Templar by way of the Freemasons.

true2yeshua: Yep, please reference my study here. (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=52052) Some highlights from your post above: 1) EVERY man who joins Freemasonry in EVERY degree I've seen in EVERY jurisdiction I've attended is told that the obligation will not conflict with his duties to God, family and country. 2) The highest level in Freemasonry is the 3d degree, Master Mason. The Grand Master of a Grand Jurisdiction can shut down every other body with a word, no matter if they have gazillionth degree masons.

As far as your post you linked to: You need to keep reading, the action starts on page 8 at post 159. (http://www.rr-bb.com/showpost.php?p=435434&postcount=159) This directly affects your posts #77 & #79. But onto the lack of facts: 1) Your description of the EA degree is incorrect; 2) Christians are not prohibited from taking oaths, but are not to make frivolous oaths of the form given and if they take an oath before God, they are to keep it; 3) Freemasonry as an organization makes NO judgment on any special revelation and leaves such judgments to the individual, which if far different from calling all religious writings equal; 4) The listed individuals are centuries too late to be "founders" of Freemasonry, by your statement, you accept the Gospel of Thomas, also written centuries later, as a "real" gospel, yes?; 5) Getting past all the problems with the limited circulation of Albert Pike's work, it is really necessary that you reconcile the information in my post I linked to above with your citing of Mr. Pike's work as something all Masons must follow. 6) Mr. Hutchens condensed and rewrote Pike's information from Morals & Dogma for the computer generation, it has the same disclaimer as Pike's work does, citing Hutchens as a "different" source is illegitimate.; 7) In your list of the SBC's points against Freemasonry, why did you skip #3? Hint for you: Don't do any research on the "salvation by works" point. It will lead you to conclude, in all Christian love, that the writer(s) of that document are not competent to hold the position they hold. Otherwise, they are outright liars from the way they edited that sentence.; 8) I'm fairly sure I covered the fez dipping lie, if not, do a search on the history of Morocco, you know, where the town of Fez was established AFTER the Muslim conquest when the blood of any massacred Christians and Jews would have been a bit on the dry and crusty side at best, but mostly flaked up and blown away, unsuitable for coloring cloth hats in by dipping.; 9) I enjoy your honesty, sending us to a professional antimason's website where you can "make a donation" to get his stuff. It seems antimasonry is better than sex for selling in some circles.; 10) If you do some research on the point I mentioned above even after I warned you not to, you will find the symbology of the white leather apron, which isn't what you said, although it is fairly evident that Joseph Smith "borrowed" rather heavily from Freemasonry for his rituals, but this was after they had been chased to Nauvoo and before being chased to Utah, so Mormonism existed before Mr. Smith was a Mason.

Ok, next:

Jennie: That is always a funny read, really funny. You actually have to prove to Masons that this guy is for real and hasn't made up his Masonic career, it reads like such a hoax. Amazing how after years and years of going through offices, memorizing parts for the ritual, giving the lectures, after being elected to the top office in the lodge with "total dedication", Mr. Washum finally gets around to noticing something. Little slow on the discernment front, isn't he?

For fun with slanting, the little jibe about how the lodge "kept" his request for demit for over a month, like it was something sinister. Not sure about his Grand Lodge, but here, it would have to be read at one meeting, then lay over 30 days to be balloted upon. This would be to make sure that any interested brother could talk to him and so that if he had done anything requiring permanent expulsion from Freemasonry, he couldn't cut out by doing a quick resignation.

Of course, you can go read the new & improved version of Mr. Washum's testimony at: http://www.emfj.org//washum.htm It is a whole lot better story now. I wonder if his donations have gone up or if he has more than three or four possible exMasons.

It seems he has lost the little book that has been repeatedly been proved a joke and now has God talking right to him. We also lost the silly "over a month" thing. It also gets more into the testimony/emotional/emergent type of thing, but then when you read the threads about emergent churches and then read some of the stuff in these antimasonic threads, the appeal to emotion and feelings over logic and research are so similar.


Well, have fun, if any of you actually have anything to say here or in the 9th Commandment thread that isn't a rehash without response, I'll be happy to chat with you, otherwise, you are going to get a response with a link to the Bible study, because you need it. Well, if you give me a rehash, then before going to Bible study, I'll suggest you take your tinfoil hat off your head, place it carefully in the trash, then get your Bible and learn what the Word says about bearing false witness, slandering and gossiping.

[TomSki]

Here's a funny quote about the Luciferian Albert Pike from that same site:

"On the other hand, most Christians will agree with much of what Albert Pike has to say about his own faith in Christianity. His discussion of baptism calls the Christian rite "a baptism of repentance, for the remission of sins: that is, the necessity of repentance proven by reformation." That "reformation" of the repentant baptized Christian is now being referred to as being "born again," which puts Pike's definition of the sacrament right in line with the beliefs of those who condemn him most angrily. His critics, of course, never quote those points: Their aim is to extract comments about the many religions, sects, and cults described in Morals and Dogma, so that they can be cited, regardless of their original content, as "documentation" that Masons believe the teachings of those ancient cults, and must believe them. They know they are lying, but quoting out of context is too wonderful a tool to be abandoned."

Well now, what is written to prove the racist Albert Pike was a Christian proves Pike wasn't a Christian at all.