The Masons & Freemasonry

[TomSki]

Tomski, you are holding up Morals and Dogma as if it were some sort of masonic bible. From my experience and the people I know it is not, and Pike has no more credence with masons than Brian McLaren does here. I can't say the same for everyone, everywhere so I'm not going to make a blanket statement.

Pike is honored as one of the greatest of Freemasons and Morals and Dogma was given to Masons of a certain degree for some time. Perhaps it's not a bible, but it sure sheds "light" on the symbolism within the Craft and how it refers to ancient pagan worship for understanding is certainly telling. Freemasons do not need Morals and Dogma to understand the symbolism they are surrounded by, but with it, it sure is easier.

[triumphantlamb]

Does the Islamic Freemason worship the same god as you?

Well by the definition of Islam that I believe, and from what I hear from most evangelical Christians, he does not.

Can a good Islamic Freemason obtain salvation without Jesus Christ?

Nope. It is clear in the Bible that no one obtains salvation without Jesus Christ.

[TomSki]

Not be me nor anyone I know. Maybe in times past but from my observations and experience it is not the case today.

I expected an answer such as this. No one represent Freemasonry, right? I think Albert Pike sounds more knowledgable about Freemasonry than you. And it doesn't matter either, since there doesn't seem to be any concrete truth to Freemasonry if you are to be believed - it is whatever the Mason says it is and it is not what they say it is not. Albert Pike would say that those outside Freemasonry do not deserve the truth - I think you might agree with him there.

[TomSki]

Well by the definition of Islam that I believe, and from what I hear from most evangelical Christians, he does not.

That's an interesting answer, since it doesn't answer the question - what would Freemasonry say about the good Masonic Islamic? Will the good Islamic Freemason obtain salvation according to Freemasonry?



Nope. It is clear in the Bible that no one obtains salvation without Jesus Christ.

A Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness and any heretical Christian can say this, too. Could you be a little bit more specific?

[jckliew]

Hmmmm seems they are saying that they can serve Yah Bul On and the Lord Jesus at the same time.........

A reminder.............

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[TomSki]

I would venture to guess that I wouldn't agree with Albert Pike, but I have no idea what you're purporting is the "truth of freemasonry". Also, has he specifically said that or are you surmising it? Either way, what is your reference?

Quoting Albert Pike:

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.

So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity.

The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is know as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehenssible as the Sohar.

So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray." Morals and Dogma, pg 104-105

[Kamatu]

Does the Islamic Freemason worship the same god as you?

Not to my understanding.

Can a good Islamic Freemason obtain salvation without Jesus Christ?

No.

[BlessedinHim]

Kamatu, are you a freemason?

[Kamatu]

Kamatu, are you a freemason?

Yes.

For full disclosure, I am a Freemason and a Christian, although by the rules of this board and the mere opinions of some of the members defines me as a witch, New Age occultist, Satanist, demon possessed and various other negative connotations. I would suggest you compare my posts in other threads before you make that decision for yourself.

Source in this thread. (http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=49727&page=3)

I've also stated so the other threads, but I like to make sure I get it in each time so people cannot say I'm trying to hide something.

[TomSki]

The omitted section in bold. Have any clarification of what

you are trying to say? It looks like you are saying the world’s knowledge is

nothing, which makes your declaration of “strawman” below look a little

silly.

The verse is universal, to what Paul was addressing and the point made, which like

the message of 1 Corinthians 13 that a true mark of a Christian is love, not

knowledge. Knowledge puffs up the ego. What knowledge is most important? "if

anyone loves God, this one is known by Him"

It looks like you are saying the world’s knowledge is nothing,

which makes your declaration of “strawman” below look a little silly. Knowledge

with charity (love) edifies however. Which is the point of 1 Corinthians

13:

No, that is not the point of 1 Corinthians 13 which is that a Christian without

agape love is unprofitable - Paul said if he had all gifts and knowledge, but no

love, "I am nothing."

We are in fact commanded to gain knowledge and wisdom in both

the Old and New Testaments, for example, in 2d Peter

What is the knowledge you say Peter writing about? It wouldn't be the Luciferian

"intellectual light" of Freemasonry?

When I refer to rational discernment, it is the use of reason

and logic to tell what is true. This has nothing to do with just using the world’s

knowledge, but with using the gifts God has given to man with the knowledge He has

given us in Scripture and the convicting power of the Spirit to discern with.

Christianity is the most internally consistent and rational of all religions. The

appeal to purely spiritual discernment refers to what occurred in Matthew

16

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in

demonstration of the spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the

wisdom of men, but in the power of God.." (1 Corinthians 1:18)

You are perverting what I am saying to argue in favor of Luciferian knowledge to

illuminate the Scriptures.

I was giving you a Christian interpretation since both

Freemasonry and the secular world really don’t give a hoot.

Yes, Pike did bring it up, for which I consider him silly, but given what I see

from his writings about his strong convictions about education, reason and truth, I

can kind of understand why he did so.

Freemasonry and the secular would "give a hoot" because both are opposed the true

God of Scripture and truth of the Gospel. Freemasonry is a Luciferian religion, a

continuation of the occult Mystery religions:

"In the Ancient Orient, all religion was more or less a mystery, and there was no

divorce from it of philosophy. The popular theology, taking the multitude of

allegories and symbols for realities, degenerated into a worship of the celestial

luminaries of imaginary Deities with human feelings, passions, appetites, and lusts,

of idols, stones, animals, reptiles...Of course the popular religion could not

satisfy the deeper longings and thoughts, the loftier aspirations of the Spirit, or

the logic of reason. The first, therefore, was taught to the Initiated in the

mysteries. There, also, it was taught by symbols...

Masonry, successor of the mysteries, still follows the ancient manner of teaching.

Her ceremonies are like the ancient mystic shows, - not the reading of an essay,

but the opening of a problem, requiring research, and constituting philosophy the

arch-expounder. Her symbols are the instruction she gives."

Morals and Dogma, pg 22

"The religious faith thus taught by Masonry is indispensable to the attainment of

the great ends of life; and must therefore have been designed to be a part of it.

We are made for this faith; and there must be something, somewhere, for us to

believe in. We cannot grow healthfully, nor live happily, without it. It is

therefore true. If we could cut off from any soul all the principles taught by

Masonry, the faith in a God, in immortality, in virtue, in essential rectitude,

that soul would sink into sin, misery, darkness, and ruin. If we could cut off all

sense of these truths, the man would sink at once to the grade of an animal."

Morals and Dogma, pg 196

From the way and manner you are using the word “Lucifer”,

no.

Lucifer, whom Albert Pike called god:

"The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth degree, the Apotheosis of

that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works

of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the

Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the

Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls!

Doubt it not!" Morals and Dogma, pg 321