The Masons & Freemasonry

[A MAttR of Time]

For full disclosure, I am a Freemason and a Christian, although by the rules of this board and the mere opinions of some of the members defines me as a witch, New Age occultist, Satanist, demon possessed and various other negative connotations. I would suggest you compare my posts in other threads before you make that decision for yourself.

You are definitely deceived.

Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

And to answer and earlier question in this thread - Billy Graham is not a Freemason, but a Rosicrucian - a member of the Order of the Rosy Cross.

And he has renounced Jesus Christ as the ONLY way to heaven:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0&feature=related

In fact, this is the kind of answer a freemason would love!!!!

[A MAttR of Time]

Some helpful websites:

Ex-Masons for Jesus http://www.emfj.org/

http://www.ephesians5-11.org/index.html

[BlessedinHim]

there is much apostasy today, many people cannot find a decent church to attend. I feel fortunate at the moment to be able to attend a true bible believing church.

when you say 3d degree, do you mean third degree?

What could the women do to embarrass the sponsoring lodge?

[triumphantlamb]

Lucifer, whom Albert Pike called god:

The Apocalypse is, to those who receive the nineteenth Degree, the Apotheosis of that Sublime Faith which aspires to God alone, and despises all the pomps and works of Lucifer. LUCIFER, the _Light-bearer!_ Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it _he_ who bears the _Light_, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not! for traditions are full of Divine Revelations and Inspirations: and Inspiration is not of one Age nor of one Creed. Plato and Philo, also, were inspired.Morals and Dogma, from Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19447)

Before this quote is a long exhortation for patience and perseverance in one's work; here is what comes after the above quote:

The Apocalypse, indeed, is a book as obscure as the Sohar.

It is written hieroglyphically with numbers and images; and the Apostle often appeals to the intelligence of the Initiated. "Let him who hath knowledge, understand! let him who understands, calculate!" he often says, after an allegory or the mention of a number. Saint John, the favorite Apostle, and the Depositary of all the Secrets of the Saviour, therefore did not write to be understood by the multitude.

The Sephar Yezirah, the Sohar, and the Apocalypse are the completest embodiments of Occultism. They contain more meanings than words; their expressions are figurative as poetry and exact as numbers. The Apocalypse sums up, completes, and surpasses all the Science of Abraham and of Solomon. The visions of Ezekiel, by the river Chebar, and of the new Symbolic Temple, are equally mysterious expressions, veiled by figures of the enigmatic dogmas of the Kabalah, and their symbols are as little understood by the Commentators, as those of Free Masonry.Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/19447)

Then it goes on with a bizzarre explanation of how the numbers relate to freemasonry.

Anyway, what I take from those passages is that the Book of Revelations is the glorification of faith towards God. That same faith despises all the vanity and works of Lucifer. Lucifer is referred to as the "light-bearer" , which is an odd name since he is in reality the Spirit of Darkness.

So I searched back and found this reference to "light-bearer":
The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black god, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry.

For the Initiates, this is not a _Person_, but a _Force_, created for good, but which _may_ serve for evil. _It is the instrument of Liberty or Free Will_. They represent this Force, which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God PAN; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or _Phosphor_, of which the poets have made the false Lucifer of the legend.

And from that quote I interpret it to mean that other religions have made their own Lucifer up; "false" because it was something they created that paralleled "real" Satan as revealed in the Bible.

Back to the main quote. Now note the formatting marks in the next sentence. Based on other instances of the underscore I take it to be "Is it he who bears the Light..." but note that it is used to blind feeble, sensual, or selfish people. It think that is an apt description, because we often say that Satan can appear as "an angel of light" and decieve those without discernment. And in fact that has happened through the ages as many have claimed revelations.

There are two ways I can go from there. One is that he intends to show that John's revelation was indeed divine and not of Lucifer (Satan). The other is that those lacking discernment who try to understand the book have their "light of knowledge" not given by God but rather by Lucifer and are thusly led astray.

I also have to take his use of "obscure" and "Occultism" are to be understood not in modern terms as "dark/unnoticed" and "witchcraft", but as "unclear" and "supernatural".

Overall, however, I fail to see how one can pull much out of a single paragraph of his writing and lay a claim to an entire philosophy. The text is more of a history of religions and his philosophical way of tying them all together, and on the balance his points are very hard to follow and make little sense.

Kamatu and Tomski what are your interpretations of the text?

[BlessedinHim]

Is this all true?

The House of the Temple stands large, grey and silent on the east side of Northwest 16th Street, between "R" and "S" Streets, it looms very wide and tall from the curb. There is a huge expanse of granite pavement in front of it, including three levels of narrowing steps as the entrance is approached. Flanking the entrance are two Sphinx-like granite lions with women's heads, the neck of one entwined by a cobra and decorated with the "ankh" (the Egyptian symbol of life and deity).

Adorning the neck and breast of the other is an image of a women, symbolic of fertility and procreation. In the pavement, just in front of the tall bronze doors, are two Egyptian swords with curved, serpentine blades and, between the two swords, brass letters, set into stone, saying, "The Temple of the Supreme Council of the Thirty-Third and Last Degree of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite."

Over the tall, bronze doors, cut into the stone, is the statement, "Freemasonry Builds Its Temples in the Hearts of Men and Among Nations."

High above the entrance, partially concealed by stone columns, is an elaborate image of the Egyptian sun god, backed with radiating sun and flanked by six large, golden snakes.

Inside is elegance: polished marble, exotic wood, gold and statuary. There are offices, a library, dining room, kitchen, Council Room, "Temple Room" and a large meeting room. This room is like a luxurious theater, rather elegantly furnished and decorated.

The ceiling is dark blue, with lights set into it to give the appearance of stars. These lights can even be made to "twinkle" like stars in the sky. There is a stage, well-equipped, and it is all very nicely done. But the thing that is most noticeable is the way the walls are decorated with serpents. There are all kinds; some very long and large. Many of the Scottish Rite degrees include the representation of serpents .

[TomSki]

Anyway, what I take from those passages is that the Book of Revelations is the glorification of faith towards God. That same faith despises all the vanity and works of Lucifer. Lucifer is referred to as the "light-bearer" , which is an odd name since he is in reality the Spirit of Darkness.

Pike is interpreting the Book of Revelations by the Kabbalah, since "The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is known as the Bible." (Morals and Dogma, pg 105) and giving honor to Lucifer, "who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls" just as Freemasonry "jealously conceals its secrets and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray." - Morals and Dogma, pg 105

And from that quote I interpret it to mean that other religions have made their own Lucifer up; "false" because it was something they created that paralleled "real" Satan as revealed in the Bible.

Pike's Satan is the God of the Bible and his Lucifer is his god;

Lucifer, Pike says, is "the instrument of Liberty or Free Will" whom the Initiates of Freemasonry represents "which presides over the physical generation, under the mythologic and horned form of the God PAN; thence came the he-goat of the Sabbat, brother of the Ancient Serpent, and the Light-bearer or Phosphor" and of Jesus and Christianity, he says "More than eighteen centuries have staggered away into the spectral realm of the Past, since Christ, teaching the Religion of Love, was crucified, that it might become the Religion of Hate...The Religion of Love proved to be, for seventeen long centuries, as much the Religion of Hate, and infinitely more the Religion of Persecution, than Mahometanism (Islam), it's unconquerable rival. Heresies grew up before the Apostles died; and God hated the Nicolatans, while John, at Patmos, proclaimed His coming wrath." Morals and Dogma, pg 294


I also have to take his use of "obscure" and "Occultism" are to be understood not in modern terms as "dark/unnoticed" and "witchcraft", but as "unclear" and "supernatural".

The meanings are the same today as when Pike wrote his book. By the way, Freemasonry isn't the only religion known as "The Craft".

Overall, however, I fail to see how one can pull much out of a single paragraph of his writing and lay a claim to an entire philosophy. The text is more of a history of religions and his philosophical way of tying them all together, and on the balance his points are very hard to follow and make little sense.

Not so - Pike's entire book lays out the faith of Freemasonry, the pagan ancient Mysteries, and proclaims the universal god, the deity of man (as the serpent promised Eve in the garden), another Christ, and another Lucifer, whom Pike calls god.

Pike writes that Freemasonry is related to the Order of the Templars, Rose-Croix, the Illuminati (Pike's own word), Morals and Dogma, pg 840

[TomSki]

Watch TBN, Todd Bently, Joel Osteen, and many other popular/emergent teachers, and you'd probably agree with his assertion... :lol2

I appreciate the humor, except that isn't what Pike is talking about. He is trashing those that teach Christianity as being ignorant of its true meaning - the "true" masonic meaning is what Pike purports to present.


Sorry I just don't see the "honoring" part. You need to be more specific in delineating how Pike honors Lucifer. Maybe it's my feeble soul, but you'll need to spell it out more clearly. :idunno

"Is it (Lucifer) who bears the light . .? Doubt it Not!"

"And the Mason is familiar with these doctrines of Philo: that the Supreme Being is a center of Light whose rays or emanations pervade the Universe; for that is the Light for which all Masonic journeys are a search, and of which the sun and moon in our Lodges are only emblems" Morals and Dogma pg 252

"To the ancients, light was the cause of lift; and God was the source from which all light flowed; the essence of Light, the Invisible Fire, developed as Flame manifested as light and splendor" Morals and Dogma, pg 13

Yes but two paragraphs up that is explained thusly:

Please be sure to use the entire context, at the context provides the meaning. Not that I'm defending his theory, but it does explain it.

It's unnecessary for me to quote anymore. What you say I didn't post is Pike is justifying deceiving those deemed unworthy of truth by saying that god himself does the same, giving truth by measure. The Bible, however, states that God gives wisdom liberally to those who ask (James 1:5).



No, in the context of the passage you are referring to I would assert the "Initiate" is a Kabbalist initiate, not a mason.

The initiate of the mysteries - it is the Freemason. Pike says that Kabbalah is Biblical and taught by Jesus and contained entire in the book of Revelation, all of which Pike claims for Freemasonry: "The Holy Kabalah, or tradition of the children of Seth, was carried from Chaldea by Abraham, taught to the Egyptian priesthood by Joseph, recovered and purified by Moses, concealed under symbols in the Bible, revealed by the Saviour to Saint John and contained, entire, under hieratic figures analogous to those of all antiquity, in the Apocalypse of that Apostle."



This is also what he says about Jesus:

You left out that Pike is really painting the image of the Masonic Jesus, "expounder of the new law of love", equal to any other "founder of any religion" (Morals and Dogma, pg 308), who teaches of another god than the one written about in the Old Testament.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your assertions when you cherry-pick quotes without the context of the page. I don't follow Pike's arguments and think he is really stretching at trying to fit masonic symbols and ideas back on older religions. But I'm not following yours either because you make an assertion and then pull one sentence out of the book as the prooftext, without stepping through it. :idunno

I gave the page numbers for anyone who would like to look up what I referenced from Pike's book. Given the honor bestowed upon Albert Pike for years, and the honor given him in the House of the Temple, and the book he wrote, given, for years, to Masons of a certain degree, I would say that Pike understood Freemasonry better than you, triumphantlamb.

Given that Freemasonry feels it is right to lie to those they deem as unworthy of the truth, the preface in the beginning of Morals and Dogma that says that the book does not speak for Freemasonry, you can bet, is a lie as well.

[A MAttR of Time]

Masonry as an organization doesn't distinguish between the special revelations of any religion.

Right, they view them all equally, except true, fundemental Christianity.

Any 'society', or religion, or fraternity that keeps secret is a cult or is evil. Plain and simple. In fact, the Mormon cult is repackaged freemasonry, Joseph Smith was a 33rd degree freemason. They have very similar blood oaths and 'degrees' of the 'Aaronic Brotherhood'.

There is nothing about the true faith, christianity, that is a secret, or is to be kept secret from non-Christians.

[TomSki]

Tomski, I'm really sorry but I do not understand the texts you refer to in the way you do. You keep saying one sentence proves your point, and then for me to go read the entire passage and context. I'm telling you that I don't understand the context and want you to explain it to me. What you have been doing is akin to this:

"Christians are devil worshippers because John 8:44 says You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire."

I'm not defending Pike. I think he is off his rocker. The problem I have is that you are not explaining your position well enough for me to understand. I downloaded the text from Project Gutenberg, and what I read does not seem to totally match up with what you are asserting. I think the only thing M&D proves is that he was a horrid writer. However, Pike is a jumbled mess of ideas, so I need you to walk me through it.

Pike was quite clear and you wouldn't be satisfied if I quoted whole chapters to show the context, you'd reinterpret it or claim I am grossly misinterpreting it or you'd claim not to be able to understand it. I believe you understand Pike's quote below and are dutifully fulfilling your oath as a Freemason:

"Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light, from them, and to draw them away from it. Truth is not for those who are unworthy or unable to receive it, or would pervert it.

So God Himself incapacitates many men, by color-blindness, to distinguish colors, and leads the masses away from the highest Truth, giving them the power to attain only so much of it as it is profitable to them to know. Every age has had a religion suited to its capacity.

The Teachers, even of Christianity, are, in general, the most ignorant of the true meaning of that which they teach. There is no book of which so little is know as the Bible. To most who read it, it is as incomprehenssible as the Sohar.

So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets, and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray." Morals and Dogma, pg 104-105

[ATYCLB]

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