As we careen towards socialism, keep this in mind

[Cory]

That's why we should abolish capitalism as a whole instead of putting little, usless regulations on business, we should abolish the money system as a whole and form a cooperative. Think of this: you do your job, and in exchange everyone else does their job, and those who don't work but can, are forsaken by the system. Everything would be free, as long as you don't take in excess.

It would be a whole new world.

[OnceWasLost]

That's why we should abolish capitalism as a whole instead of putting little, usless regulations on business, we should abolish the money system as a whole and form a cooperative. Think of this: you do your job, and in exchange everyone else does their job, and those who don't work but can, are forsaken by the system. Everything would be free, as long as you don't take in excess.

It would be a whole new world.

It will indeed be a whole new world since it will likely be such a system imposed by the antichrist, Revelation 13 explains it in detail.

On paper it sounds so nice. Where it falls short is the people who contribute more, or the ones who contribute less (talent abilities, etc) will never be able to coexist. The people who produce more will inherently have contempt for those less driven or just downright lazy. There will be a disincentive to strive and better oneself. That is why it fails whenever it is tried. It will be an eventual dictatorship run by the state.

It is the drive to be excellent that makes the United States the world leader in just about everything. It further is the reason for the standard of living we enjoy. Socialism would ruin that in a generation. Look at the nations who were liberated from socialism/communism. They are now embracing free markets and consumption tax systems. If the old way was ideal why change:idunno

As for kicking out the non producers that is such an un-socialist thing to do, and who would determine what that non production looks like.

Jesus had something to say on the matter.

Matthew 10:9-10 "Provide neither gold nor silver nor copper in your money belts, nor bag for your journey, nor two tunics, nor sandals, nor staffs; for a worker is worthy of his food."

For the record, can you point to a time and country where it has ever worked? :scratch

[WhitemoonG]

Cory: thanks for your response. I'll respond as simply and politely as possible.



What you describe would be WONDERFUL, and I don't know that I can think

of anyone who would disagree, IF IT WERE EVEN POSSIBLE.



The problem is that what you nicely describe is DREAMLAND.


No matter if you, we, all of us, or most of us, advocate and work for such an IDEAL UTOPIA, it will NEVER HAPPEN.



Why? HUMAN NATURE.


Is it disappointing that this dreamland paradise is not possible? Of course it is! Will being disappointed about it change anything? Not a chance!


Cheers

[Stinker]

I think the answer is a system that would REWARD small and LARGE
company's if they kept the Jobs here. Also, set up some system where , the
more the profits are trickled down to the workers(all the way down..they always think upper level management is the trickle down spot) the more that comapany is going to be rewarded.

If we could give these company's HUGE incentive -(tax breaks-government covers health care-) to spread the profit, I think we would solve a number of issues.

AND, keep everyone happy, then the CONSERVATIVE form of Republicanism shall be restored.( it would not mean more goverment interference, but giving those comapanys a HUGE break-maybe saying something like" you spread the profits to your workers, and we are gonna give you some pretty big breaks, we will keep our hands of you"...or something to that effect.)

One can dream, can they not?

To: whitemoon, you are preaching to the quire, but how much of that information is being understood and accepted by the average person?

I used to believe the same way you did, but you still cant cover up the truth.

When some people prosper, they get greedy, so it goes back to the state of there spiritual lives, and unfortunately, not many of the wealthy live in a dependent state to our Father.

[MrMannn]

That's why we should abolish capitalism as a whole instead of putting little, usless regulations on business, we should abolish the money system as a whole and form a cooperative. Think of this: you do your job, and in exchange everyone else does their job, and those who don't work but can, are forsaken by the system. Everything would be free, as long as you don't take in excess.

It would be a whole new world.

Naive. Thy name is socialism.

I agree with the others, this is a fantasy land scenario.
For one, it depends on all men to forgo greed and evil and contribute equally.
Humans are by their nature sinful, and that WILL doom your utopian system.

Capitalism is not perfect, but it allows for the greatest degree of freedom for men.
Certainly, I would fight to prevent a socialist takeover. Literally!
I would take up weapons, gather like minded people, and revolt!
There ARE people who will fight to prevent total socialism (or communism, as you describe it) from ever being a reality.

And if I am ever forced to live in such a society, I will abuse it, take advantage of it, and play the system to the best of my ability. I will work just enough to fool those in charge, I will cut corners, and take far more than my fair share, selling the excess on the black market. I will guarantee your system breaks down.

[R1200C]

I love how so many of the people on this board are more than willing to sacrifice their sons and daughters for "our freedom" (as if somehow our freedom hinged on who is in charge of Iraq?!), but ask those who have more than they need to give up some money to feed and give medical care to the poor (which is what socialism does), and everyone suddenly gets tight pocketed.

If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? (NIV, 1 John 3:17)

And just who is going to determine how much I need? YOU? The problem with this is some government bureaucrat that doesn't have the common sense God gave a rubber duck will be determining what I need. Socialism takes a lot of money and people in this country whine endlessly about the price of gasoline. It has been 4 times as high for years in the Socialist Paradise of the EU because of socialism. TAX TAX TAX and then TAX some more is the cry of the do gooders and socialism. In a perfect world we would all just take "what we need" but in case all of you people in favor of socialism haven't noticed, this isn't a perfect world.

Who gets turned away from an ER? Socialism is very alive in this country. There is free health care for illegal aliens and other who can't afford it. Go to an ER some night and see. How many billions has this country spent on poverty and welfare? We are up to our armpits in socialism and you think we need more?

We are taxed at over 50% when you add up all the taxes most people pay now. I don't call that tight fisted especially when we waste most of it on idiotic bureaucratic crap because socialist fools think the government is supposed to do everything for everybody. Many people are stupid and lazy and will not lift a finger if somebody else will take care of them. They scream for their rights but won't move an inch to do anything but expect someone else to do for them what they should do for themselves.

Most socialist are very generous with other people's money, i.e. the fruits of other people's labor. Socialism has led to totalitarian governments where all freedoms cease to exist. Tell the people in Eastern Europe again how great socialism is. They may of forgotten.

[WhitemoonG]

Stinker: This will be brief If you want to make some general comment about it not being possible to "cover the truth," which is clearly something NOBODY can do, would you be willing to explain what "truth" you think I'm trying to cover, because I'm not sure what you mean here?

As for your question about my posts, I'll leave that to others to decide. Meanwhile, they are what they are.

I think we clearly agree that incentives to reduce the trend toward outsourcing jobs to other countries, possibly even "insourcing" some of them back, would be great. This would primarily be tax REDUCTION, less stifling regulations, and if possible, some reasonable, comprehensive tort reform.

These kind of things could easily place businesses/corporations in a position they originally would have liked all along, and able to have greater operating funds and profits,to divvy up toward several things to keep the company thriving, with continued good prospects and servicing, dividends for the OWNERS of the corporation (i.e. stockholders, large and small) and also be able to offer better wage scales and compensation packages for workers, worker unions, etc. , in addition to not having to just plain eliminate or transfer jobs nearly as often. Republicans/conservatives have issues also, but as for these kind of things happening anytime in the forseable future with Democrats in charge of Congress, you'll grow very old waiting for it.

And again, the paradox is that by claiming to be the working man's advocate with their legislation, the possibly unintended/clueless consequences of that is that they are actually a big, and possibly biggest problem for the workers they claim to champion. Sadly, many just don't see it, but buy into the predictable stereotypes and demagoguery.

Cheers

[Issachar]

I would take up weapons, gather like minded people, and revolt! Are you doing it yet? The US is very far along the path to socialism. :)

As a believer, knowing we are in the last days and not seeing Jesus or any of His followers in the NT try and change the gov't that was very oppressive, do you think it is a good idea to resist, even unto death (must be expected if you take up weapons against the gov't)? I believe the world will continue on it's rapid journey away from God and consequently, become a worse place to live, which in turn, will require (by man's useless wisdom) more and more oppressive measures to keep things under control. In Christ, we are free. It is a freedom that mankind, not only cannot take away, but can't even comprehend what it is that we have. I think (just my opinion) that the church, as a whole, should have it's eye's wide open as we head into the immediate future and prepare for what is ahead by being more in prayer, more in the Word and MORE in fellowship. The day fast approaches where we will need one another as believers. Gathering with like minded people that want to revolt with carnal weapons will necessarily mean associating with unbelievers. As much as I want to live without oppression, I won't do it by being unequally yoked with unbelievers. Also, just curious, what do you think about Roman's 13 and gov't? I don't like it, but it's there.

Issachar

[Cory]

Naive. Thy name is socialism.

I agree with the others, this is a fantasy land scenario.
For one, it depends on all men to forgo greed and evil and contribute equally.
Humans are by their nature sinful, and that WILL doom your utopian system.

Capitalism is not perfect, but it allows for the greatest degree of freedom for men.
Certainly, I would fight to prevent a socialist takeover. Literally!
I would take up weapons, gather like minded people, and revolt!
There ARE people who will fight to prevent total socialism (or communism, as you describe it) from ever being a reality.

And if I am ever forced to live in such a society, I will abuse it, take advantage of it, and play the system to the best of my ability. I will work just enough to fool those in charge, I will cut corners, and take far more than my fair share, selling the excess on the black market. I will guarantee your system breaks down.

And as a result of your treason against society and your fellow man, you would be exiled from society.

BTW: How very christian of you to do such a thing. I would create a socialist society if I could out of love for mankind and the desire to give people better lives. You would try to cheat the system based out of pure spite and hatred.

[name1]

Norway wouldn't a starling example of mixed/socialist economies, if it wasn't for the benevolent blessings of sheer staggering amounts of oil and gas reserves owned by the government. Plus.. having so few people to divide the proceeds up with in their population.