Im thinking of going to my first Gun Show this weekend.

[Hootmon]

...or either move or get a home security system.I actually live in a fairly safe area. Im just concerned that may change given the current situation.

[Hootmon]

Lots of good advice. Indeed.

My thanks to all of you.

[1master]

Thank you very much Wally :hat My hats off to anyone who served here as well. I agree with you, the shotgun will have quite a bit to say to an intruder. Maybe its just me but I would rather put a round to the shoulder or arm from a small arms weapon rather than to decide his fate with a 12 gauge slug at close range. The MP-5's the instuctors used were ideal for room clearing and for the firing techniques we had to use on the adversary. Acuracy was paramount, I guess im still partial to that. Manuevering through rooms with a shotgun, I will admit, never came to mind.:thumb

[Wally]

I guess the greatest challange to anyone protecting home and life is:

Do I have time to negotiate?

I can barely imagine the training required when miliseconds count with a hostage's life. Home defenders may not have that luxury. As few are trained, you're half asleep, the dog may be growling, time is of the essance, and risking a wounded assailant is not a good idea. They do shoot back.

That may explain the predominance of shotgun defended homes.

Obviously no one should hope to have an encounter, and surely most do not invite intruders, but to Be Prepared - to the best of your ability, is wise.

I hope we have helped any readers, and again encourage safety training. Even the ability to make a weapon safe is a good tool to have regardless if you ever want to shoot a gun.

[A MAttR of Time]

Lots of good advice.


As far as shotguns and bird shot I have to respectfully disagree about the effectiveness of light loads especially at household ranges, or under 25 yards. The Remington 870 and Mossberg pump are both good choices, the 12 is a good way to go and you can get used to it with the lighter loads such as # 9, 7, 8, 7, 6…. and so forth and so on the bigger the number the lighter the load without getting any more complicated. Go with a 3” chamber as has been mentioned.

If you get a 12 do yourself a huge favor and ask for the lightest 9’s, 8’s or 7’s available, also known as trap loads, recoil is light and therefore manageable.

Work your way into it and with some practice 00 buck will take you out 75 yards in a pinch, even at 100 they’d better be ducking. Slugs come into their own at the longer ranges, 50-100 yards, but require more complicated sighting systems. Keep it simple.



Internet myths that will get you killed.

Birshot will not penetrate deeply enough to reach the vitals and stop the attack. It may inflict a serious surface wound, but it won't stop an aggressive attacker. There are police reports of felons on drugs taking 7 12 ga slugs to the chest before they stopped the fight. Don't gamble with birdshot.

Also, pattern your shotgun out to 25 yards with your chosen load. You need to see how it opens up with distnace. At typical inside the house distances, YOU STILL NEED TO AIM THE SHOTGUN. A good shotgun with a 18-20" barrel will put all pellets into a 2-4" circle. Not the hollywood street sweeper most people think it is.

[A MAttR of Time]

I guess the greatest challange to anyone protecting home and life is:

Do I have time to negotiate?

I can barely imagine the training required when miliseconds count with a hostage's life. Home defenders may not have that luxury. As few are trained, you're half asleep, the dog may be growling, time is of the essance, and risking a wounded assailant is not a good idea. They do shoot back.

That may explain the predominance of shotgun defended homes.

Obviously no one should hope to have an encounter, and surely most do not invite intruders, but to Be Prepared - to the best of your ability, is wise.

I hope we have helped any readers, and again encourage safety training. Even the ability to make a weapon safe is a good tool to have regardless if you ever want to shoot a gun.

The firearm is the last line of defense. If you are forced to use it, then all the other lines have failed - outside lighting, locks, alarm system, dog......

As for the decision - that is where training comes in. Owning a firearm for self defense is a GOD GIVEN right, guaranteed by the Constitution, but with that right comes the responsibility to keep it safe, to know how to use it, and to know WEHN to use it. Most states have laws that if someone breaks into your house, it is a felony and deadly force is justified. This helps make the decision a little easier.

[A MAttR of Time]

Maybe its just me but I would rather put a round to the shoulder or arm from a small arms weapon rather than to decide his fate with a 12 gauge slug at close range.


Pardon me, but if someone has broken into your house, THEY have already decided their fate, no?

[ephraim]

All im saying here is, if you are the average joe wanting a little "Home security" a reliable semi-auto like the Beretta 9mm I referred too would be my choice by far. Its alot more likely to keep/get you OUT of sticky stituations in the HOME. Its a solid ,reliable and universal piece of gear. Any weapon without expierience will be difficult to handle. A handgun for the average joe will find it alot easier to manage in close quarters. With some time spent at the range you can become pretty good with it. You dont need to be knocking pictures off the walls and banging into doors with a shotgun in the middle of the night. I spent 4 weeks at a training facility on Camp Pendleton with Instructors from Force Recon. All we did was train in Close Quarter Battle(CQB). We cleared everything from small buildings to larger 2-stories. We had to use our M-16's and im telling you they were cumbersome. The only time we used shotguns were for "Lock-busters". Many times I wished I had the instructors short stubby MP-5. CQB is no easy task to perform in itself and add to that the disorientation of a mid-night invasion and a pile of "un-knowns". This is only my advice from my own expierences. I was with the 1st mar. div. 3/5 weapons co. what unit were you with my fellow Jar head. If you were at Pendleton, I was on camp San-Meteo aka "The Projects".:hehee PM me if you would like.

I am certainly no expert in home defense. You are correct in saying that a handgun is easier to grab, handle, move and hide ect... I was just making the point that it is a bit more difficult to actually hit something with a handgun. That is a major issue for me when thinking about a high stress situation where you cannot concentrate and BRASS, breathe, relax, slowly squeeze the trigger. :) If it were me and I had my choice of easy access I would grab the shotgun ever time, but that is me. I personally would not give a hoot about knocking pictures off of a wall in the middle of the night if it was a life or death situation. Most people buy handguns and shoot them once or twice and then have them in their homes. You have to wonder if they could hit a wall at 20 feet let alone a person, hunched down or moving rapidly towards them. I used to tell my wife, if I am not home and you can get to the scatter gun, grab it.

I was with recon for six months in Okinawa but I did not get into to much close combat training although our unit did. Then I went to Camp Lejeune N.C. as an 0381 81 MM weapons platoon. I was an FO. I did basic firearms training in bootcamp and pendleton and MCT at Pendleton.

Anyway, it is not something I would want to engage in. It says in the word if you live by the sword you die by the sword. That is not something I would want to bring down on myself, but if you have no choice and it is them or your family then you have no choice.

[Colorado]

No internet myths Matt just 45 years of a lot of hunting experience with a 12 gauge, from bunnies and birds to bear. I call up predators in the Rockies for fun and relaxation and make sure one of the two long guns along is a 12 gauge with a partner who knows how to load it up and use it.

Not my first choice but I still say at close range even the lightest 12 gauge #9 trap load is going to be devastating. I was recently talking with a large metropolitan LEO with first hand experience about bad guy’s taking multiple hits with heavy calibers and still remaining in the fight, he acknowledged they were usually hit around the edges, with center of mass always bringing quick closure (8 seconds max) head shots for instantaneous. I found the same is true in hunting many years ago. Shot placement is everything. Even with a perfect shot from a modern high powered hunting rifle it's not unusual for a deer or elk to run a few hundred yards.

Nothing wrong with 1911's Wally, that's what I carry either .45 or 10mm depending on the occasion.

I admit a tough choice on handgun versus shotgun for home defense, but I'm not a fan of slugs in the home...to much recoil and penetration...that slug could go through not only your home but the neighbors too, plus only one slug, I just don't see any upside to it. In the hands of an experienced shooter the shotgun/slug combo might be fine, especially if living in a rural area, and if so I'd load a buck/slug cocktail with the last two being slugs if I were concerned about engaging at any distance.

And I have to agree that it's going to much more difficult to maneuver in tight quarters, even with a short barrel. Think about going around a tight corner in a home with a long gun, I’ll take a handgun thanks.

I think another plus for the handgun is portability and ability to conceal not mention ease of training. There are more handgun defense classes available to the general public when compared to shotgun.

And the one thing we do all agree on is safety and training.

[1master]

Pardon me, but if someone has broken into your house, THEY have already decided their fate, no?

I believe God only sits in that seat. Im stressing minimal use of force necessary.