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Arkycharlie
July 14th, 2008, 06:57 PM
jamesu1, you are too kind, brother!

Jack Kelley writes, in his online article A Land of Unwalled Villages, the following statements quoted directly as a copy and paste from the article (http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/a-land-of-unwalled-villages)


And there's one other condition. Israel is described as living in safety in Ezek. 38:8 and the Jews are called a peaceful and unsuspecting people in Ezek. 38:11. The word translated safety in Ezek. 38:8 really implies what might be called a false sense of security, as if there's no basis for the feeling of safety that exists in the minds of the people. One meaning of the word is careless. The safety is more a hope they have than a legitimate condition.

Remember, Ezekiel's word for safety implies a false sense of security, so only the illusion of peace is necessary to meet the requirement.

Here, once again, is every use of “betach” in the Book of Ezekiel:

Eze 28:26
"And they will live in it securely; and they will build houses, plant vineyards, and live securely, when I execute judgments upon all who scorn them round about them. Then they will know that I am the Lord their God."' "
Eze 30:9
"On that day messengers will go forth from Me in ships to frighten secure Ethiopia; and anguish will be on them as on the day of Egypt; for, behold, it comes!"
Eze 34:25
"And I will make a covenant of peace with them and eliminate harmful beasts from the land, so that they may live securely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods.
Eze 34:27
"Also the tree of the field will yield its fruit, and the earth will yield its increase, and they will be secure on their land. Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bars of their yoke and have delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them.
Eze 34:28
"And they will no longer be a prey to the nations, and the beasts of the earth will not devour them; but they will live securely, and no one will make them afraid.
Eze 38:8
"After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them.
Eze 38:11
and you will say, 'I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls, and having no bars or gates,
Eze 38:14
"Therefore, prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, 'Thus says the Lord God, "On that day when My people Israel are living securely, will you not know it?
Eze 39:6
"And I shall send fire upon Magog and those who inhabit the coastlands in safety; and they will know that I am the Lord.
Eze 39:26
"And they shall forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid.


So, we have Brother Jack’s very clear statements:


And there's one other condition. Israel is described as living in safety in Ezek. 38:8 and the Jews are called a peaceful and unsuspecting people in Ezek. 38:11. The word translated safety in Ezek. 38:8 really implies what might be called a false sense of security, as if there's no basis for the feeling of safety that exists in the minds of the people. One meaning of the word is careless. The safety is more a hope they have than a legitimate condition.

Remember, Ezekiel's word for safety implies a false sense of security, so only the illusion of peace is necessary to meet the requirement.

And we have the very clear statements of the Lord God Almighty:


Eze 38:8
"After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them.

Eze 38:11
and you will say, 'I will go up against the land of unwalled villages. I will go against those who are at rest, that live securely, all of them living without walls, and having no bars or gates,

*admin edit* inappropriate comments

charlie

Chris
July 14th, 2008, 10:31 PM
From Fruchtenbaum's FOTM:


The Israelis dwell securely (38:11,14). This is often been misconstrued as meaning a state of peace, but this is not the meaning of the Hebrew root batach. The nominal form of the root means "security". This is not security due to a state of peace, but a security due to confidence in their own strength. This, too, is a good description of Israel today. The Israeli armyhas fought four major wars since its founding and won them switftly each time.

Today Israel is secure, confident that her army can repel any invasion from the arab states. Hence, Israel is dwelling in unwalled villages (38:11). this is very descriptive of present-day kibbutzim in Israel.

Looks like the concordance agrees with Arnold:

http://cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H0983&t=kjv


Outline of Biblical Usage
1) security, safety
adv
2) securely

Nowhere does it say or suggest "peace" from the definitions or usage guidelines.

Further.......


The most common objection is that "dwelling safely" or "securely" as used in the OT always refers to millenial peace and security-something that Israel will not receive before the Tribulation. However, that is an overstatement. While it is true that the term "dwell securely" is used of life in the MK, this is true of the minority of cases and not at all true of the majority. A list of references where this is not true includes: Lev. 25:18, 19 : 26:5Deut. 12:10; 1 Samuel 12:11; 1 Kings 4:25; Pslam 4:8; 16:9; Proverbs 1:33; 3:23,29; Isaiah 47:8; Jeremiah 49:31; and Zeph. 2:15. the Jeremiah reference is particularly significant since it uses the very same phrases that are found in Ezekiel 38:11. This phrase is used more in non-millennial contexts than in millennial ones.

And...........My thoughts.........

There is a big difference between living "securely" or "safely" as opposed to living in "peace". The text does not suggest Israel will be living in peace, but rather safely and/or securely in the land. She meets that requirement today.

Another note is that some rank Israel #4 in the world in strength of their army, only behind the US, Russia, and China. While there are terrorist attacks, the majority of Israel lives securely in the land of villages without bars, gates, or walls.

While it is true that there is security wall in the West Bank and around Gaza, these are only in certain places. The vast majority of the borders are without walls (Lebanon, Syria, Egypt borders). The walls are only up to stop terrorist attacks, sniper fire, etc. The villages, towns, etc. are without gate, bars, or walls. Israel is currently meeting the requirement of being a land of unwalled villages.

Chris
July 14th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Because of the continued attacking people rather than the argument, the thread is closed.

Buzzardhut
July 15th, 2008, 09:54 AM
Because of the continued attacking people rather than the argument, the thread is closed.

I don't understand why people get upset over the Gog/Magog war. :ohno

1life
August 13th, 2008, 02:28 PM
Dont you think that the Gog/Magog war will be Gods way of opening the eyes of non-believers all over the world? :thumb They would have to realize that God does exist! Like its their last chance before the rapture! :nod Just a thought!

Xenosjeff
August 13th, 2008, 02:39 PM
When the enemy is smashed upon the mountains of Israel, there will be still be those who will not believe. But, if there are people who are on the edge of a decision and they have any respect for God, they will be convicted.

I can only hope that someone has the foresight to have some sort of cameras and NASA grade survelience on the region. I would love to see a shot of some flaming brimstone hurling through space right at the forces of Gog/Magog. OOOHHH Ahhhhh, coooool.Wow , did ya see the size of that one!

Peace

Jeff

Steve53
August 13th, 2008, 03:00 PM
IMHO more like volcanic activity/plate tectonics of some sort to create the fire and brimstone.

AndreiB
August 13th, 2008, 03:00 PM
From Joel Rosenberg's site (i agree with what he says here):
Many of the theologians I have cited in this book believe the war will occur after the Rapture. In the novel Left Behind, Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins describe the War of Gog and Magog as having already happened before the Rapture takes place. In The Ezekiel Option, I also chose to portray the war occurring before the Rapture.

In Matthew 24:14, Jesus says, “This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come” (NASB). We also know from Ezekiel that God will use the War of Gog and Magog to display his glory to all nations and to pour out his Holy Spirit, particularly on the nation of Israel. As a result of the entire world seeing God defend Israel from the onslaught of the Russian-Iranian coalition, a dramatic spiritual awakening will occur around the globe. It would certainly be consistent with God’s heart for humanity that he would cause this cataclysmic moment to occur before the Rapture in order to shake people out of their spiritual apathy and/or rebellion and give them at least one more chance to receive Christ as their Savior before the terrible events of the Tribulation occur.

But let me be clear: I believe that the Rapture could occur at any moment, and I would certainly not be surprised in any way if it occurred before the events of Ezekiel 38 and 39 come to pass.

Christian theologians speak of the “doctrine of imminence.” This means that according to the Bible there is no prophetic event that has to happen before Jesus snatches his church from the earth. That is, the Bible teaches us that we should be ready for Jesus to come for us at any moment. I fully believe that. But it should be noted with regard to this doctrine that while no major prophetic event has to happen before the Rapture, that doesn’t mean no such event will happen first. Perhaps the clearest evidence of this truth is the rebirth of Israel. This major prophetic event was foretold in Ezekiel 36–37, yet its fulfillment happened before the Rapture. Thus, it is certainly possible that other events—such as the events of Ezekiel 38–39—could happen before the Rapture as well.

Adoration
August 13th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Welcome Adrei!! :wave And I agree...nothing, and this includes Gog/Magog, needs to happen before our Lord comes for His Church. I am so glad!

Dani D
August 13th, 2008, 04:11 PM
I seem to think the Jews will see God's hand in their rescue from Gog and Magog, yet meybe they will still not embrace Jesus as their Messiah and many will follow the AC who helps them re-build their temple.

Just like the Jews acknowledge that God saved them in the 6 day war, they will know God has saved them again, yet if Gog and Magog happen before the Tribulation, then the AC will be able to still deceive them.