The Battle of Gog and Magog

[ReadyForDeparture]

Hey there, RFD ... Good on ya' ! :hat

I'm a fan of Joel Rosenberg myself. You might enjoy his website/blog: http://joelrosenberg.blogspot.com/

Kathleen

Hello.... I have read The Last Days, The Ezekiel Option, Epicenter, and am just starting Dead Heat. His idea of using scripture as the foundation of his novels is too cool. The perfect truth woven into a work of fiction. It's an idea that will get a lot of unsaved persons reading I think. But yes, I have been going to his website for some time now......

Try to stay cool..... You live in one place that is always hotter than Texas... Whew!.....

Ready for Departure

[Marie_M]

Metroames:

I most certainly agree that the Rapture is pre-trib (and imminent) and agree that Christians aren't appointed to wrath. However, I interpret the verses you posted in Ezekiel 38 differently. To me, they are referring to God pouring out His wrath on Gog and the coalition coming against Israel, not all nations/people.

I could see Ezekiel's Gog/Magog (or possibly even the Psalm 83/Isaiah 17 war) being a tool of evangelism before the Rapture...maybe God's way of giving the world one last chance to believe in Him and His almighty power (by witnessing his deliverance of Israel).

I'm not convinced one way or the other that Ezekiel's Gog/Magog will happen before the Rapture, just that I think it is a possibility.

Either way, I always enjoy your thorough and informative studies. I have definitely learned a lot about prophecy from reading your posts since I've been on this board. You have been a catalyst in my desire to study prophecy more in-depth. :hug

[ReadyForDeparture]

Metroames:

I most certainly agree that the Rapture is pre-trib (and imminent) and agree that Christians aren't appointed to wrath. However, I interpret the verses you posted in Ezekiel 38 differently. To me, they are referring to God pouring out His wrath on Gog and the coalition coming against Israel, not all nations/people.

I could see Ezekiel's Gog/Magog (or possibly even the Psalm 83/Isaiah 17 war) being a tool of evangelism before the Rapture...maybe God's way of giving the world one last chance to believe in Him and His almighty power (by witnessing his deliverance of Israel).

I'm not convinced one way or the other that Ezekiel's Gog/Magog will happen before the Rapture, just that I think it is a possibility.

Either way, I always enjoy your thorough and informative studies. I have definitely learned a lot about prophecy from reading your posts since I've been on this board. You have been a catalyst in my desire to study prophecy more in-depth. :hug

Marie :thumb

I agree with almost everything you said..... Metroames you are an excellent help in studying prophecy and your posts are sometimes mind boggling in their detail..... I really enjoy reading and pondering them. However I agree with Marie totally in that the wrath we are not appointed to is clearly the wrath of the tribulation... Gog/magog is clearly a much smaller conflict limited to a handful of Israel's enemies---- those nations will see God's wrath bigtime while the world sits back and watches...... and talks and negotiates and threatens sanctions and the usual do-nothing hand wringing the world is getting so good at..... Russia/Georgia is a perfect example----

As I posted earlier, I think both the rapture and gog/magog are in a state of imminance... and regardless of which comes first.. .they will happen in relative closeness to one another......

Ready for Departure....

[metroames]

Metroames:

I most certainly agree that the Rapture is pre-trib (and imminent) and agree that Christians aren't appointed to wrath. However, I interpret the verses you posted in Ezekiel 38 differently. To me, they are referring to God pouring out His wrath on Gog and the coalition coming against Israel, not all nations/people.

I could see Ezekiel's Gog/Magog (or possibly even the Psalm 83/Isaiah 17 war) being a tool of evangelism before the Rapture...maybe God's way of giving the world one last chance to believe in Him and His almighty power (by witnessing his deliverance of Israel).


There are Christians in those nations that will come against Israel. Will God pour out His Wrath also on them in this age of grace?

Apostasy will be dominant and the Lord even says in Luke 18: "when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?” There will be no revival until after the rapture. Because of this I believe Psalm 83/Isaiah17 and Gog/Magog will be events that help bring in a great harvest of the Tribulation Saints.

Do you see what I'm saying? The Bible says that there will be a great multitude of Tribulation Saints. If these wars are pre-rapture and bring no revival, then why would the Tribulation? The Tribulation will be the time that unbelievers will be forced to make a choice. God is exercising His grace until the rapture.

[metroames]

Gog/magog is clearly a much smaller conflict limited to a handful of Israel's enemies--

Ezekiel 38:19 For in My jealousy and in the fire of My wrath I have spoken: ‘Surely in that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel, 20 so that the fish of the sea, the birds of the heavens, the beasts of the field, all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men who are on the face of the earth shall shake at My presence.

Looks like all creation and all men will be affected by this war. That sounds like Tribulation talk to me. :idunno

[Angelita]

I sure hope so! But some people are so decieved...............I think the most powerful thing we can do for those decieved is pray and do spiritual warfare for them!

[Angelita]

The idea that this war could possibly happen after the 1000 years flies in the face of so many other scriptures. It is based totally on the appearance of the words gog and magog in verse 8. I had responded to a similar post 2 or 3 weeks ago and showed with scripture all the holes in this idea. If all scripture does not agree then there is a problem with the interpretation. Proper Biblical hermaneutics are critical in these areas.

I will give just one here- Verse 8 which mentions gog-magog says the devils goes to the 4 corners of the earth to gather the nations for this battle, but Ezekiel clearly give a limited list of nations that are involved. This is just one of many many scriptural inconsistancies with this post millenial interpretation, which puts the entire interpretation at odds with the rest of the Bible....

God's Word does not contradict it self, and when all scripture is considered you will get the proper interpretation. I would equate this interpretation on the same level as those who say all of Revelation was fulfilled prior to 70 AD. That dog just does not hunt.... in my studied opinion... and also humble opinion.... :)

Ready for Departure

I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Angelita]

I wanted to put even more thumbs-up in hear but it won't let me


1Life Xenosjeff :thumb
I posted a similar reponse weeks ago that I felt Gog/Magog could happen prior to the Rapture. There is equal room in scriptures to place it on either side. To flat out say it has to happen after the Rapture ignores some of the points and logoc that point to the other scenario.

Steve53 :thumb I agree also in that this would be a miracle involving conventional destructive forces. Volcanoes would indeed have the necessary elements but are there enough in close proximity to Israel to do this? And even if it is volcanoes, God will have to direct the exact places the fire and brimstone falls to hit the enemies of Israel. If there is nothing on Earth (volcanoes) to explain it that will bring even more glory to God IMHO.

Andrei B Julian4jc :thumb I think we gentiles always need to give messanic jews an edge in what they see in the scriptures. They are doublely blessed in a sense. The fact that Joel Rosenberg thinks gog/magog is before the rapture gives me pause to give it even more consideration as a real possibility. He has been so right on other things he has written.

DaniD Awesome :thumb There are scriptures that totally support what you say. The Jews will know God has delivered them, but their response is to rebuild the Temple and set up OT animal sacrifices. This defeat of their closest enemies allows this building of the temple to occur. Ezekiel is in chronological order at least from Ch 36 on. And right after the gog/magog victory, Ezekiel's last 9 chapters all deal with nothing basically but the rebuilding of the temple. It is at a later date during the tribulation that Zachariah's prophecy of Israel seeing Him in the clouds whom they pierced and beating on their chests, that they realize Jesus is Yeshuah, their Messiah.

Angelita Ron4Jesus :thumb I also think that if gog/magog happens before the Lord takes us home that we will have a huge opportunity with many persons to see them accept Jesus. Within those nations that reognize God thru the miraculous deliverance of Israel in gog/magog, I think those people will be in a national atmosphere for a short time that allows open witnessing without penalty, at work, on public transit, in schools, and all over, due to that nations response to God's miracle.

Sydney Spider :wave You also come to the conclusion that it will be a great tool if it happens before the rapture but you seem set in your opinion that it cannot happen until after the rapture. But just as we do not know when the rapture will occur so also we have no specific scripture of when gog/magog will be... so we need to be open to both possibilities and witness to our friends about this event now, and even more if we get to see it happen. The Hebrew word used in Ezekiel 38:23 for knowing God is "yada" which is first described in Strong's concordance as "to ascertain by SEEING" so it is interesting that the KJV says in vs 23 "and I will be known in the eyes of many nations" The verses clearly are implying more than just an analytical knowledge that the God of the Bible is the one true God--, not allah, not the brahman of Hinduism, not budda, not L. Ron hubbard, not the god in the book of morman, or any other god, but the one true Biblical God, is where it's at.

Angelita :wave Your take that the attack of God is nuclear in nature is the position that has been speculated since Hal Lindsey's ground breaking book, Late Great Planet Earth. It has been a logical position that early writers jumped at. I thought the same for many years. But if you look at the scriptures a bit more you will see that God does not describe a battlefield affected by nuclear waste at all.
1) Birds will feed on the bodies- they would all die off if bodies were contaminated by radiation 2) The verses do not say the area is "unclean", a very biblical word- but it says the opposite, that people will be manually burying the bodies right there on the spot where they find them. and 3) it talks about people who are just "passing through" the area helping the burial teams clean up the mess. If it was all contaminated by radiation it would be a no-mans-land and no one would be allowed to casually just pass through. Since all these armies die on ISRAELI soil, I also do not see God contaminating His peoples sacred land.

Kgreen20 :wave I have an instant liking of you because you come from SE Okla. I was born and raised in LeFlore County and love that beautiful part of the country. It is so awesome. I do have a different take on the timing of gog/magog however based on just logicing thru some verses. If it happens in the last half of the tribulation, then the temple would not already be there at the 3.5 year time frame for the AC to enter and profane. As I said above, Ezekiel is in chronological order from Ch 36 on and ends with the temple being built AFTER the gog/magog war. So how could the battle take place after the AC enters the temple, when the temple will not exist yet if gog/magog happens more than 3.5 years into the tribulation? he same wek that I was wondering why gog/magog is followed by 9 looooong chapters describing every minute detail of the buklding of hte temple. Then it dawned on me that this is after gog/magog in Ezekiel because the temple is built after gog/magog. I got warm fuzzies 4 days later watching Grant Jeffreys TV show where he proposed the exact same logical conclusion for the timing of the building of the temple.

The "coastlands" comment in Ezekiel is also fascinating. We really have no idea what it means, but to conclude that it has a worldwide application is a big step to take. There is plenty of coastland in the middle east to satisfy it being more local in nature. All the nations that will attack Israel in gog/magog have a coastland. It is hard to think of one that does not have a coast on the ocean or a body of water connected to the oceans- "Black Sea, Mediterranian Sea, Red Sea, Persian Gulf, Indian Ocean, Caspian Sea. I tend to agree with Joel Rosenberg in that there will be other parts of Russia and the islamic nations that God also judges and strikes as He is destroying their armies, and that this is not about the rest of the world. Also, as I mention above, the scriptures do not seem to support nuclear weapons being used by God so I do not see a world-wide exchange of weapons. It will be a localized war in the middle east so that God can FOCUS the world's EYES on Israel so we can all see Him deliver them while we sit and watch..... as Ezek 38:13 seems to show... nations sitting on the sidelines watching "Sheba and Dedan and the merchants of Tarshish, with all their lionlike cubs [or satellite areas], shall say to you, Have you come to take spoil?"

Anyway.... This is a super thread and one of the most level headed discussions of this war that I have yet seen.....

I love you all and love this site...... Let your friends know about Demascus (BarryinAustralia :thumb and Cookie :thumb) and gog/magog when you get the chance.... when they see you are right, they will be amazed and hopefully will open that bible on their shelf and read and find the Lord.... which we are also all telling them about hopefully...

Even so.... Come Quickly Lord Jesus

Ready for Departure.....

I never thought of that.......................about why it's probably not nuclear war. What you said makes alot of sense. Your probably right.

[1angel4u]

Maybe this is the precursor to this war.

What I know for SURE, very sure

is that at some point the U.S. will APPEASE evil

The U.S. will LACK THE WILL to stand UP to EVIL
so we will APPEASE EVIL.

I suspect the U.S. will be destroyed by APPEASING EVIL.

Already we are losing our will to do what is right.

My guess is this is WHY the U.S. is not clearly seen as a player in "end times".

ALL will come against Jerusalem - that includes the U.S..

The U.S. is warming up to that - through who we vote in to positions of power.

I agree - we will appease evil. What's more, is that we're the LAST country left to appease evil.

Once we're (the Church) is gone :ohno ----- I can't wish what happens on anyone.

I find myself praying for everyone on earth these days. My prayer list is loaded: family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, all caught up in false religions/cults, non-believers... I think that pretty much covers the entire earth. :idunno :preach :hugs to EVERYONE! :faint

[lendingheart]

I dont mean a date.... but i am really confussed, will it be, pre, mid, or post trib. I read someone somewhere say it was post millinium. Some think it is part of the Armagedon war.

I tried to find what LaHaye, Lindsey and all say but im having trouble.

Someone help!