In Christ Alone
February 25th, 2009, 03:55 PM
I always thought that Gog was the Leader of Magog.
I agree, I think this is correct. Gog is the "chief prince", Magog is the people of Gog (his armies). However, from what I have studied it looks like Gog/Magag is the same as Armageddon. Dave Hunt believes they are the same (click here to listen to a radio interview regarding Ezekiel 38 & 39 (http://www.thebereancall.org/audio/2006/5006a.mp3)), as do many other great teachers. Many think they are different battles as well but they have too many similarities to be different. These are not two different wars. They are separate descriptions of the same event.
Biblical prophetical literature often speaks about a single event yet with details often included or omitted depending on the prophet. Joel will not include all the same details of Ezekiel, who will not include all the same details as John, who will not include all the same details as Daniel, etc. Zechariah describes additional details regarding Jerusalem, Ezekiel describes the same battle but with additional details regarding the nations themselves specifically. In both instances it is God who draws them into the valley so that He can destroy them. Think of the descriptions from Ezekiel, Joel, Zechariah, Daniel, John for instance as different pieces to the same puzzle.
When Gog/Magag and Armageddon are compared we notice the following significant similarities:
1. Both Gog and the Antichrist invade Israel for the spoil
Ezek:38:12, "To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."
Daniel 11:33, 39, "And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, [many] days... Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
2. Israel is experiencing peace at the time of the invasion
Gog/Magog will invade Israel at a time when there is an apparent peace. This is exactly the same thing that the Antichrist will do according to the book Daniel. A peace treaty will be signed by Israel and her enemies at the beginning of the last seven years and this treaty will be violated at the middle of these seven years. Israel will then be driven from their country for the last 3 1/2 years of the seven years.
3. There are clues that the nations with Gog and the Antichrist are the same.
Gog is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.
Meshech = "drawing out". (son of Japheth, grandson of Noah, and progenitor of peoples to the north of Israel, a. descendants of Mesech often mentioned in connection with Tubal, Magog, and other northern nations including the Moschi, a people on the borders of Colchis and Armenia). Mochi was a people inhabiting the Moschian Mountains, between the Black and the Caspian Seas. The Region of Meshech is now the country of Georgia that is located in the southern tip of Russia and is mostly Muslim.
Tubal = "thou shall be brought". (son of Japheth and grandson of Noah. 6. a region in east Asia Minor, a. perhaps nearly equal to Cappadocia). Tubal was in modern day western Turkey also within the same location as the Thracian region in Turkey. This absolutely verifies this area as being a part of the same nations as the Antichrist. This is one of the nations of the Antichrist.
There are other nations revealed in Ezekiel that we will also find are in step with the nations of the Antichrist.
Ezekiel 38:5, "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:"
Daniel 11:43, "But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps."
We also know that Persia will be one of the nations of the Antichrist because Persia is modern day Iran and is the bears feet on the beast in Revelation according to Daniel.
4. They both are temporarily driven out of Israel by other armies.
Ezekiel 38:13, "Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?"
There is an indication that Gog has been to Israel before. This is taken from the thought that God turns them back. Wouldn't they have had to be there before if he turns them back? (Ezekiel 38:4, 39:2 KJV) The Hebrew word "Shuwb" a word that means "to return" or "to turn back" is used in these two verses. It appears that the Antichrist will be driven out of Israel after a short stay. I say this because a short time before Armageddon the Antichrist is found at the River Euphrates close to Baghdad getting re-enforcement to re-invade Israel.
Micah 5:4-6, "And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders."
5. God draws them back down to the mountains of Israel to destroy them.
The scriptures tell us that God draws Antichrist down to Israel so that God can destroy him and his armies there (Zechariah 14:2). God turns Gog around and brings him down to the mountains of Israel to destroy him. God will also bring the Antichrist down against Israel to destroy him.
Ezekiel 39:2-4, "And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured."
Compare with:
Zechariah 14:2-3, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."
In both cases God brings them down to Israel to destroy them.
6. God causes them to kill one another through confusion.
Ezekiel 38:21, "And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother."
Zechariah 14:13, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour."
7. Both experience a great earthquake and hail falls on them.
Ezekiel 38:19-20, "For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."
Revelation 6:14, "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
Revelation 16:18, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."
Both Gog and the Antichrist experience great hail falling on them from God.
Ezekiel 38:22, "And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone."
Revelation 16:21: And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."
8. At the time of their destruction God calls for the vultures to come and eat the dead carcasses of his enemies.
Ezekiel 39:4-5, "Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD."
Revelation 19:17-18, "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
9. The place of their burial is the same.
Ezekiel 39:11, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamon-gog."
Daniel 11:45, "And he shall plant the tabernacles (Pitch his tents) of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."
10. In both battles Jesus is present in the flesh.
Ezekiel 38:20, "And all the men that are upon the face of the earth shall shake at my presence."
Ezekiel 39:7, "And the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel."
Ezekiel 38:18, "My fury shall come up in my face.” If we say that the "presence" and "face" are not literal and are allegorical they we'd have to allegorize the feet that will touch the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14, but this forces a Jewish interpretion which denies Jesus as Messiah.
If we are to believe that Gog/Magog is different than Armageddon then we are saying that Christ physically comes down in wrath, shakes the planet, crumbles mountains, sinks islands, sends hail, fire & brimstone and destroys the invading armies, feeds their bodies to ravenous birds, gives them a burial place in the valley and proves to the world that He is God, then goes back up to Heaven and comes back down and does the exact same thing all over again a few years later because the world conveniently forgot. I don't think there is any logic to that really. Consider this -- if the mountains are thrown down per Ezekiel 38:20, what mountains will there be to be thrown down a second time per Revelation 6:20? These are not two different wars, they are separate descriptions of the same event.
I agree, I think this is correct. Gog is the "chief prince", Magog is the people of Gog (his armies). However, from what I have studied it looks like Gog/Magag is the same as Armageddon. Dave Hunt believes they are the same (click here to listen to a radio interview regarding Ezekiel 38 & 39 (http://www.thebereancall.org/audio/2006/5006a.mp3)), as do many other great teachers. Many think they are different battles as well but they have too many similarities to be different. These are not two different wars. They are separate descriptions of the same event.
Biblical prophetical literature often speaks about a single event yet with details often included or omitted depending on the prophet. Joel will not include all the same details of Ezekiel, who will not include all the same details as John, who will not include all the same details as Daniel, etc. Zechariah describes additional details regarding Jerusalem, Ezekiel describes the same battle but with additional details regarding the nations themselves specifically. In both instances it is God who draws them into the valley so that He can destroy them. Think of the descriptions from Ezekiel, Joel, Zechariah, Daniel, John for instance as different pieces to the same puzzle.
When Gog/Magag and Armageddon are compared we notice the following significant similarities:
1. Both Gog and the Antichrist invade Israel for the spoil
Ezek:38:12, "To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land."
Daniel 11:33, 39, "And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, [many] days... Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge [and] increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
2. Israel is experiencing peace at the time of the invasion
Gog/Magog will invade Israel at a time when there is an apparent peace. This is exactly the same thing that the Antichrist will do according to the book Daniel. A peace treaty will be signed by Israel and her enemies at the beginning of the last seven years and this treaty will be violated at the middle of these seven years. Israel will then be driven from their country for the last 3 1/2 years of the seven years.
3. There are clues that the nations with Gog and the Antichrist are the same.
Gog is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.
Meshech = "drawing out". (son of Japheth, grandson of Noah, and progenitor of peoples to the north of Israel, a. descendants of Mesech often mentioned in connection with Tubal, Magog, and other northern nations including the Moschi, a people on the borders of Colchis and Armenia). Mochi was a people inhabiting the Moschian Mountains, between the Black and the Caspian Seas. The Region of Meshech is now the country of Georgia that is located in the southern tip of Russia and is mostly Muslim.
Tubal = "thou shall be brought". (son of Japheth and grandson of Noah. 6. a region in east Asia Minor, a. perhaps nearly equal to Cappadocia). Tubal was in modern day western Turkey also within the same location as the Thracian region in Turkey. This absolutely verifies this area as being a part of the same nations as the Antichrist. This is one of the nations of the Antichrist.
There are other nations revealed in Ezekiel that we will also find are in step with the nations of the Antichrist.
Ezekiel 38:5, "Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:"
Daniel 11:43, "But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps."
We also know that Persia will be one of the nations of the Antichrist because Persia is modern day Iran and is the bears feet on the beast in Revelation according to Daniel.
4. They both are temporarily driven out of Israel by other armies.
Ezekiel 38:13, "Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?"
There is an indication that Gog has been to Israel before. This is taken from the thought that God turns them back. Wouldn't they have had to be there before if he turns them back? (Ezekiel 38:4, 39:2 KJV) The Hebrew word "Shuwb" a word that means "to return" or "to turn back" is used in these two verses. It appears that the Antichrist will be driven out of Israel after a short stay. I say this because a short time before Armageddon the Antichrist is found at the River Euphrates close to Baghdad getting re-enforcement to re-invade Israel.
Micah 5:4-6, "And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders."
5. God draws them back down to the mountains of Israel to destroy them.
The scriptures tell us that God draws Antichrist down to Israel so that God can destroy him and his armies there (Zechariah 14:2). God turns Gog around and brings him down to the mountains of Israel to destroy him. God will also bring the Antichrist down against Israel to destroy him.
Ezekiel 39:2-4, "And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured."
Compare with:
Zechariah 14:2-3, "For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."
In both cases God brings them down to Israel to destroy them.
6. God causes them to kill one another through confusion.
Ezekiel 38:21, "And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother."
Zechariah 14:13, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour."
7. Both experience a great earthquake and hail falls on them.
Ezekiel 38:19-20, "For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."
Revelation 6:14, "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places."
Revelation 16:18, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great."
Both Gog and the Antichrist experience great hail falling on them from God.
Ezekiel 38:22, "And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone."
Revelation 16:21: And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."
8. At the time of their destruction God calls for the vultures to come and eat the dead carcasses of his enemies.
Ezekiel 39:4-5, "Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD."
Revelation 19:17-18, "And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
9. The place of their burial is the same.
Ezekiel 39:11, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamon-gog."
Daniel 11:45, "And he shall plant the tabernacles (Pitch his tents) of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him."
10. In both battles Jesus is present in the flesh.
Ezekiel 38:20, "And all the men that are upon the face of the earth shall shake at my presence."
Ezekiel 39:7, "And the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel."
Ezekiel 38:18, "My fury shall come up in my face.” If we say that the "presence" and "face" are not literal and are allegorical they we'd have to allegorize the feet that will touch the Mount of Olives in Zechariah 14, but this forces a Jewish interpretion which denies Jesus as Messiah.
If we are to believe that Gog/Magog is different than Armageddon then we are saying that Christ physically comes down in wrath, shakes the planet, crumbles mountains, sinks islands, sends hail, fire & brimstone and destroys the invading armies, feeds their bodies to ravenous birds, gives them a burial place in the valley and proves to the world that He is God, then goes back up to Heaven and comes back down and does the exact same thing all over again a few years later because the world conveniently forgot. I don't think there is any logic to that really. Consider this -- if the mountains are thrown down per Ezekiel 38:20, what mountains will there be to be thrown down a second time per Revelation 6:20? These are not two different wars, they are separate descriptions of the same event.