The Battle of Gog and Magog

[4EverHis]

ClosetLady-Ez 38 & 39 equals Armagedon; Christians will be raptured long before. In this battle, secular Israel recognizes GOD as their protector and savior for the first time--read Zechariah 12-14 as back up for this--and forevermore turns to HIM.

I have to respectfully disagree. Ezekiel 38, is a completly different event, different time, than Armagedon. Jesus is not a part of the Ezekiel 38-39 event at all, and Gods Word is clear on that. Ezekiel 38-39, is between God, and His people.


That means Ez 38,39 cannot be before the Trib because obviously Israel does not acknowlege GOD yet and they sure as heck aren't worshipping and trusting in the Almighty.

Yes, Israel does acknowledge God. Some will believe, and some not, but God makes it very clear that He has turned His attention back to them. That is His whole purpose for orchestrating the event. He even instructs them to commemorate the Ezekiel 38 event.

[ClosetLady]

Um, Jesus is God.



Points:

Ez 39:7 ...and I will not let them (Israel) pollute my holy name any more and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord...That cannot possibly happen until the end-end, or God would be in contradiction of His Word and promises.

Ez 39:17, 18 speak unto every fowl, assemble yourselves...ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty......then look at Rev 19: 17, 18--same call to the birds to eat the flesh. Same battle.

Ez 38:19,20...great shaking in the land of Israel...and the men that are on the face of the earth shall shake at my presence...the mountains will be thrown down... Sounds like Jesus just arrived on the scene for Armageddon.

Try diagamming Ez 38, 39 and Zech 19,20 and Rev 17,18 together. Then look at it in context to the imminency of the Rapture. Ez. battle cannot take place before the Rapture. Ez. battle cannot take place mid-Trib. Armageddon fits.

[Marie_M]

Yes, but there is an even greater reason. A most beautiful, moment in all of time. God orchestrates the entire event of Ezekiel 38-39, for His purpose. He is fully restoring His Covenant with His First Born, the Apple of His Eye. He tells us in His Word, that He had "hid His Face", from them for thousands of years, and then says that He will "hide His Face no more" from them. He will fully be with them forever, from that moment forward. He will "pour out His Spirit" upon them. He has turned His attention from the Church, and back to His beloved people. The Church...we are gone...

:nod :yeah

[4EverHis]

ClosetLady-Um, Jesus is God.

Forgive me Sis, but sarcasm is really not necessary. :) God has no problem mentioning His Son, and He clearly doesn’t. Jesus is not stated at all in Ezekiel 38-39. The purpose of the entire event, is for the reconciliation of God and His people.

Points:
Ez 39:7 ...and I will not let them (Israel) pollute my holy name any more and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord...That cannot possibly happen until the end-end, or God would be in contradiction of His Word and promises.

Ez 39:17, 18 speak unto every fowl, assemble yourselves...ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty......then look at Rev 19: 17, 18--same call to the birds to eat the flesh. Same battle.

Ez 38:19,20...great shaking in the land of Israel...and the men that are on the face of the earth shall shake at my presence...the mountains will be thrown down... Sounds like Jesus just arrived on the scene for Armageddon.


Try diagamming Ez 38, 39 and Zech 19,20 and Rev 17,18 together. Then look at it in context to the imminency of the Rapture. Ez. battle cannot take place before the Rapture. Ez. battle cannot take place mid-Trib. Armageddon fits.

I agree :idunno The Rapture is imminent. However, Ezekiel 38-39 occurs before the Trib, not during the Trib- or "Armageddon". They are two completely different events, with different nations, at different times, and many other reasons. We cant add to Scripture, what is not there.

[Gideon300]

Psalm 83 is not a war. It is a cry to the Lord for protection from enemies that are "plotting".

MROD, Not everyone agrees with this, I don't. I see Psalm 83 as a war that has yet to happen. Psalm 83 contains prophecy within it too. These nations at the time of Asaph's prayer were not aligned together. In fact, David had conquered many of them. Isaiah 17 actually contains much of the same geography spoken of in Psalm 83 making it possible that these two events might be connected.

Ezekiel never mentions any of the nations involved in Psalm 83 in Ezekiel 38 & 39 which were definitely known to Ezekiel, and is odd that he would not include them in the list of nations, if they were taking part in the Gog and Magog invasion.

There are prophetic lines in Psalm 83 which states a a confederacy would be formed by these nations, and the only time that has happened is in 1950 when the Arab League was formed by these exact nations. One of the main reasons for the Arab League is to rid the ME of Israel, exactly what Psalm 83 states. Psalm 83 also states that there will be tents in Edom, which is one of two things, nomadic people or refugees. Edomites were not nomadic, so this is speaking of refugees, which just so happened to appear, tents and all, in 1949 after they failed to destroy the newly reborn nation of Israel. Those tents are still there.

[Tres Wright]

Psalm 83 is not a war. It is a cry to the Lord for protection from enemies that are "plotting".

Quite right. Here's more on Psalm 83:


Some popular theories regarding the meaning of Psalm 83 are circulating, claiming it is an unfulfilled prophecy, and describing a major separate war that will take place before the battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39. Accompanying that particular interpretation is a belief that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) will successfully defeat Arab enemies, therefore getting the credit for defeating the Arab nations that surround Israel. It is true that in Ezekiel 37:10, an “exceedingly great army” is mentioned, but the verse does not say that that a great army will be responsible for the destruction of Israel’s enemies. I would also say it is much more likely a war that we will see before the battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39 will be the fulfillment of Isaiah 17, which could very possibly take place shortly before the battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39. The destruction of Damascus could very likely trigger the Gog-Magog battle.

“The burden against Damascus, Behold. Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap” (Isaiah 17:1).

In "The Ezekiel Solution" lecture, Doc Beshore goes into a definitive description of Psalm 83, confirming my own analysis of the psalm. He teaches that Psalm 83 is an imprecatory prayer. He also agrees that the Arab states mentioned in the psalm are the modern Arab states that are members of the Arab League. Their agenda is to reduce Israel to nothing. Bible scholar Doc Beshore is also very proficient in the Hebrew language. In reference to Psalm 83, verse 5, he states the word “confederacy,” berith in Hebrew, can be translated into the English word “league.” Also, according to The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Hebrew word berith is translated “covenant” in the English Bible. The concordance also states the word berith appears 227 times in the Old Testament, and means “confederacy, league or covenant.” [2]

Doc Beshore further contends that Psalm 83 is a fulfilled prophecy, a prophecy that continues to be fulfilled, and a prophecy that will be completely fulfilled when the battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39 takes place. He definitively states that the next major prophetic war in the Middle East will be the battle of Ezekiel 38 and 39.

By carefully comparing Psalm 83 with Ezekiel 38 and 39, Psalm 83 appears very much to be an imprecatory prayer for Israel, and certainly relates to current events.

Link: http://www.raptureready.com/soap/kit1.html



They are two completely different events, with different nations, at different times, and many other reasons. We cant add to Scripture, what is not there.

:nod Here's an article that touches on this a bit:


1. Annageddon is not directed against Israel, but constitutes an attack on the part of the world's nations against Christ (see Revelation 16:12-21; 19:11-21). The deception of the Antichrist and his insane hatred of Jesus Christ at the end of the tribulation period will culminate with his bringing together-even from the Orient over the dried-up River Euphrateshordes of people against Jesus Christ, the coming King-but not Israel. That the Antichrist will utterly fail is clearly predicted in Revelation 19. However, this Scripture passage should not be confused with Ezekiel 38 and 39, which to even a casual reader plainly states that Israel is the object of Gog and Magog's hatred. These two attacks are unique and distinct, and I believe they will occur at least ten or more years apart.

Link: http://raptureready.com/terry/james47.html

[ClosetLady]

"We cant add to Scripture, what is not there." I am confused about what you were specifically trying to say? Perhaps you can PM me and explain so we don't get into a public discussion of perceived slights.

I'd love to go back and discuss what I have on the points above.

Ez 39:7 ...and I will not let them (Israel) pollute my holy name any more and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord. Think about that before you jump to a conclusion--BTW, I mean "you" in the broad sense, everyone who's reading ,not just those folks who are chiming in.

God does not contradict Himself. When He says Israel will not pollute His name any more, it logically has to be the day of the Lord, the end of the age, the time when Israel is recognizing God consciously and joyously. Israel has historically shone itself time and time again to be polluters and idolators--this is clearly a time when that can no longer be because GOD said so. It's conclusive by the language in Ez 39:7 that they are His. Soooo, if God is saying here that from this day forward Israel will never again be forsaken by God, then He would be a liar if He allowed the AC to destroy Israel and persecute the Jews after that. The flight to Petra couldn't happen!

We know the AC can't touch Israel once they acknowlege God as savior. Therefore, like it or not, Ez 38,39 battle is Armageddon--God does the saving, not the IDF!

Ez 38:19,20...great shaking in the land of Israel...and the men that are on the face of the earth shall shake at my presence...the mountains will be thrown down...

In Revelation men are so hopeless at this point they are begging the mountains to fall on them. Look at the similarity:GOD is PRESENT in Ez 38:19,20! He is saving Israel, He is shaking the entire world! GOD does not save Israel until the final decisive battle, when heathens acknowlege who the God of Israel is and most importantly, Israel realizes who her savior is! That's Armageddon, folks, aka the battle of Ez 39, 39. From Ez 38,39 on, Israel KNOWS her Savior.

Fact: The rapture of the saints is imminent.
Conclusion: If WWIII (aka Ez 38,39) takes place first, then the imminency clause is null because that would be a serious calendar event and God didn't give us any calendar events, he only gave us the Blessed Hope.

Try diagamming Ez 38, 39 and Zech 19,20 and Rev 17,18 side by side--compare the phrases God uses to describe the time. You will find that Ez. battle cannot possibly take place before the Rapture and you will find the Ez. battle cannot possibly take place during the Trib. Armageddon fits.

[4EverHis]

ClosetLady-
"We cant add to Scripture, what is not there." I am confused about what you were specifically trying to say?


God does not say in His Word, anything about Jesus being involved with the Ezekiel 38-39 battle. When His Son is present, He says it clearly. Jesus is not spoken of, standing on the Mount of Olives, in the Ezekiel 38 battle for example. Neither is the AC? Why? Because they are not there. Its a different time, and battle. God would not leave that detail out. It is not a Salvation event at all, but the reconciliation of God with His people.

I'd love to go back and discuss what I have on the points above.


Ez 39:7 ...and I will not let them (Israel) pollute my holy name any more and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord. Think about that before you jump to a conclusion--BTW, I mean "you" in the broad sense, everyone who's reading ,not just those folks who are chiming in.

Yes, He is talking about His people :idunno


God does not contradict Himself. When He says Israel will not pollute His name any more, it logically has to be the day of the Lord, the end of the age, the time when Israel is recognizing God consciously and joyously.

That is an assumption. Ezekiel His people they are burning weapons for 7 years, burying the dead for months, plundering the dead. These are not joyous actions at all.


Israel has historically shone itself time and time again to be polluters and idolators--this is clearly a time when that can no longer be because GOD said so. It's conclusive by the language in Ez 39:7 that they are His.

God says that His people are "His" throughout scripture. :scratch He is makinig His name known to them. :idunno

Ezekiel 39:7
7.So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.


Soooo, if God is saying here that from this day forward Israel will never again be forsaken by God, then He would be a liar if He allowed the AC to destroy Israel and persecute the Jews after that.The flight to Petra couldn't happen!

Where does He say that they will never be forsaken? He says that He has now revealed Himself to them. Just as Jesus is revealed to us through the Holy Spirit, when we become Saved. Israel will witness this miracle of Gods intervention in this war, and still, some will not beleive it was Him. Which is also historical to their relationship with Him. During the Trib, the AC will be in Israel, and there will be Israeli's helping him.


We know the AC can't touch Israel once they acknowlege God as savior. Therefore, like it or not, Ez 38,39 battle is Armageddon--God does the saving, not the IDF!

Where does Israel "acknowledge God as Savior" in Ezekiel 38-39? :scratch
There is no Salvation mentioned in that Scripture.


Ez 38:19,20...great shaking in the land of Israel...and the men that are on the face of the earth shall shake at my presence...the mountains will be thrown down...
In Revelation men are so hopeless at this point they are begging the mountains to fall on them. Look at the similarity:GOD is PRESENT in Ez 38:19,20! He is saving Israel, He is shaking the entire world! GOD does not save Israel until the final decisive battle, when heathens acknowlege who the God of Israel is and most importantly, Israel realizes who her savior is! That's Armageddon, folks, aka the battle of Ez 39, 39. From Ez 38,39 on, Israel KNOWS her Savior.

Again, Israel does not come to "Salvation" in Christ in Ezekiel 38-39. It is simply not written in His Scripture there at all.


Fact: The rapture of the saints is imminent.
Conclusion: If WWIII (aka Ez 38,39) takes place first, then the imminency clause is null because that would be a serious calendar event and God didn't give us any calendar events, he only gave us the Blessed Hope.

Yes, the Rapture is imminent, but we will know the season. God makes it very clear at the end of Ezekiel 39, that His attention is drawn back to His people. The Church? we are not there. This does not present any predictability at all. Jesus said we will not know the day or the hour, and we wont.


Try diagamming Ez 38, 39 and Zech 19,20 and Rev 17,18 side by side--compare the phrases God uses to describe the time.You will find that Ez. battle cannot possibly take place before the Rapture

I agree :) Ezekiel 38 will occur before the Rapture. Conjoining Scriptures that have a similar phrase, is not conclusive at all. Ezeikiel 38-39 does not occur during the Trib. Not Mid-Trib or the end of the Trib. There are many, many, different reasons.Example, your comparison of the "birds" feasting. It is the Israeli's themselves, that God has buring the dead in Ezekiel. Some initial reasons why Ezekiel 38 occurs before the Tribulation:
Mid Trib- the Israeli's have to start to run for their lives immediately after the mid point, so they cant spend seven months burying their own dead, let alone the dead of the Russian invasion forces, all while in the middle of Armageddon.
Ezekiel 39:12-13
12. For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13. All the people of the land will bury them, and the day I am glorified will be a memorable day for them, declares the Sovereign LORD.

End of Trib
Israel is involved in a life or death struggle against the Antichrist, and would not be living peacefully.No Israeli is safe until just after the end of the Tribulation Again, Israelis are fleeing for their lives, no time to bury the dead.
The birds, not Israel, clean up the bodies at the end of the Tribulation


and you will find the Ez. battle cannot possibly take place during the Trib. Armageddon fits.

Armageddon is during the Trib :scratch and that is where you are placing the Ezekiel 38 war - in the Trib - Armageddon. I agree, Ezekiel 38 will not take place during the Trib, and that includes "Armageddon". Two very different wars. :)

[MamaBug]

I thought the Ezekiel war would occur at some point before the Tribulation. I don't have my Bible with me right now but I remember something said about the Israelis burying bodies for 7 months and burning weapons for 7 years. This is JMO since only God knows when this will happen but it looks like it would happen before the Trib. I wonder if it will happen before the Rapture.

[Sons of Thunder]

...just out of curiousity, when do you think this war will occur? I've heard everything from 3.5 yrs prior to the trib, to the war that breaks the peace treaty half way through the trib.