4EverHis
December 31st, 2009, 04:51 AM
JustinSolo-You state this like it is proven, but it is conjecture. There is no verse that states that the Gog/Magog battle is the reason for the covenant. We don't even know for sure it is a peace treaty.
As Gideon stated, it is Gods Word, not "conjecture".
The only scriptural reason I can see so far for arguing for this battle towards the beginning of the 7 years is because Israel must dwell safely/securely in the land. Is there any more?
Yes there is more :) Have you read any of the previous posts? :scratch
• The Millennium obviously doesnt happen till the Second Coming, because that's when the Lord returns to establish it.
• The Second Coming doesnt happen till the end of the Great Tribulation. And that can't happen till the anti-Christ stands in the Temple in Israel declaring himself to be God. (2 Thes. 2:4)That's the event Jesus warned Israel to look for as the Great Tribulation's beginning. "The Abomination of Desolation" in Matt. 24:15-21.
• "The Abomination of Desolation" doesnt happen till there's a Temple.There hasn't been a Temple in Israel since 70AD and there won't be one until the Jews decide they need one.
• The Temple won't be until God reinstates their Old Covenant relationship, signaling the start of Daniel's 70th week. And that can't happen till the Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 is won, because it's Ezekiel's battle that officially draws the Jews back to God. (Ezek. 39:22)
• And that doesnt happen till the Church is gone, because the Church and Israel are mutually exclusive to Him. (Romans 11:25 & Acts 15:13-18) And that brings us to the present, because there is no preceding event for the Rapture of the Church. It could happen at any time.
Mid Trib- the Israeli's have to start to run for their lives immediately after the mid point, so they cant spend seven months burying their own dead, let alone the dead of the Russian invasion forces.
Ezekiel 39:12-13
12. " 'For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13. All the people of the land will bury them, and the day I am glorified will be a memorable day for them, declares the Sovereign LORD.
Also, being on the run, they don’t have time to gather seven years worth of weapons, why would they be burning weapons when they need them for protection.
End of Trib
Israel is involved in a life or death struggle against the Antichrist, and would not be living peacefully. No Israeli is safe until just after the end of the Tribulation. Again, Israelis are fleeing for their lives, no time to bury the dead.
The birds, not Israel, clean up the bodies at the end of the Tribulation.
Ezekiel 38 -
• God specifically states the limited nations involved
• Gog is Gods enemy
• God destroys Gog and his cohorts
• God restores His Covenant with His people
Armageddon -
• The WORLD is involved in the battle
• The AC is Gods enemy
• Jesus arrives on a White Horse and destroys the nations, the AC and his side kick
• Jesus rescues the remnant Believing Jews
Swift judgment can still take time.The fall feasts cover 15 days. So for Jesus to fulfill all that in his second coming, means he will be walking/riding around doing something for those days.
"Swift judgment can still take time"? Forgive me, but it appears that you are viewing this event from an earthly perspective. Gods "time" has nothing to do with our "time", watches mean nothing to Him. Scripture very clearly states that judgment will be swift. Jesus just speaks judgment, and it is done. This is not a meet and greet event. Jesus slays them with His Word, He is The Word, and Hebrews 4:12 tells us very,very clearly that the Word of God is "quick" and "powerful".
Hebrews 4:12
12.For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
But who knows...there is no detailed itinerary of Jesus' return...just some highlights.Anything said concerning this is most likely speculation on both sides. Lots of details are left out.
Forgive me, again, but Scripture makes it very clear what occurs, it is not just "highlights". It is very detailed. Jesus speaks, and it is done. How long does it take to speak a "word"? Seconds.
Revelation 19:11-
11.And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12.His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13.And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14.And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15.And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16.And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17.And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18.That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19.And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20.And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21.And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
As Gideon stated, it is Gods Word, not "conjecture".
The only scriptural reason I can see so far for arguing for this battle towards the beginning of the 7 years is because Israel must dwell safely/securely in the land. Is there any more?
Yes there is more :) Have you read any of the previous posts? :scratch
• The Millennium obviously doesnt happen till the Second Coming, because that's when the Lord returns to establish it.
• The Second Coming doesnt happen till the end of the Great Tribulation. And that can't happen till the anti-Christ stands in the Temple in Israel declaring himself to be God. (2 Thes. 2:4)That's the event Jesus warned Israel to look for as the Great Tribulation's beginning. "The Abomination of Desolation" in Matt. 24:15-21.
• "The Abomination of Desolation" doesnt happen till there's a Temple.There hasn't been a Temple in Israel since 70AD and there won't be one until the Jews decide they need one.
• The Temple won't be until God reinstates their Old Covenant relationship, signaling the start of Daniel's 70th week. And that can't happen till the Battle of Ezekiel 38-39 is won, because it's Ezekiel's battle that officially draws the Jews back to God. (Ezek. 39:22)
• And that doesnt happen till the Church is gone, because the Church and Israel are mutually exclusive to Him. (Romans 11:25 & Acts 15:13-18) And that brings us to the present, because there is no preceding event for the Rapture of the Church. It could happen at any time.
Mid Trib- the Israeli's have to start to run for their lives immediately after the mid point, so they cant spend seven months burying their own dead, let alone the dead of the Russian invasion forces.
Ezekiel 39:12-13
12. " 'For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13. All the people of the land will bury them, and the day I am glorified will be a memorable day for them, declares the Sovereign LORD.
Also, being on the run, they don’t have time to gather seven years worth of weapons, why would they be burning weapons when they need them for protection.
End of Trib
Israel is involved in a life or death struggle against the Antichrist, and would not be living peacefully. No Israeli is safe until just after the end of the Tribulation. Again, Israelis are fleeing for their lives, no time to bury the dead.
The birds, not Israel, clean up the bodies at the end of the Tribulation.
Ezekiel 38 -
• God specifically states the limited nations involved
• Gog is Gods enemy
• God destroys Gog and his cohorts
• God restores His Covenant with His people
Armageddon -
• The WORLD is involved in the battle
• The AC is Gods enemy
• Jesus arrives on a White Horse and destroys the nations, the AC and his side kick
• Jesus rescues the remnant Believing Jews
Swift judgment can still take time.The fall feasts cover 15 days. So for Jesus to fulfill all that in his second coming, means he will be walking/riding around doing something for those days.
"Swift judgment can still take time"? Forgive me, but it appears that you are viewing this event from an earthly perspective. Gods "time" has nothing to do with our "time", watches mean nothing to Him. Scripture very clearly states that judgment will be swift. Jesus just speaks judgment, and it is done. This is not a meet and greet event. Jesus slays them with His Word, He is The Word, and Hebrews 4:12 tells us very,very clearly that the Word of God is "quick" and "powerful".
Hebrews 4:12
12.For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
But who knows...there is no detailed itinerary of Jesus' return...just some highlights.Anything said concerning this is most likely speculation on both sides. Lots of details are left out.
Forgive me, again, but Scripture makes it very clear what occurs, it is not just "highlights". It is very detailed. Jesus speaks, and it is done. How long does it take to speak a "word"? Seconds.
Revelation 19:11-
11.And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12.His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13.And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14.And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15.And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16.And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17.And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18.That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19.And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20.And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21.And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.