The Battle of Gog and Magog

[4EverHis]

I wasn't saying that Israel would for sure accept him as their Messiah. I don't know if you thought I was stating that. If so, I just want to clear that up.
I have the same question as you do, though. Especially, with the Sanhedrin back in operation.

Some have said, that the AC from the revived Roman Empire, will have Jewish roots, back in his family lineage. Zola Levitt, a Believing Jew, used to say that the AC would most likely not be fully Jewish, and that not all Jews at the time will agree to the AC. Some will, some wont, as has been the Jewish tradition Zola said.

[JustinSolo]

:scratch Not sure where you're coming from here. As Watchwoman & Gideon said and as I reported from their current teaching, this is both the what and the who they are waiting on. Do the Jews have a tendency of staying the course and serving God or being disobediant? Are they under the covenant or the law? Did they recognize Jesus when He came or did they not? Are they still looking for Him?

Geepers, it almost sounds as if a way is trying to be found to create a conflict here. The Jews have been looking for His coming since almost the beginning. They have a set of criteria they think He will exhibit.

Now...after waiting and looking for this many thousands of years, just what do you think they are gonna do when they think He shows up? Tell Him to have a seat in the corner, they'll be with Him when they get around to it or follow him?

Either I'm missing something or its that simple.


All I am saying is that in the context of this thread (Gog/Magog) there are 2 statements that were being made. I'm just showing that both can not be true at the same time.

1:Israel will accept AC as messiah. (I am not saying I do or don't believe this.)
2:Gog/Magog will bring about Israel's return to God. (I do believe this because the scripture says so clearly.)

1 and 2 can't happen at the same time...Turning to God and turning to a false messiah. That is all I was trying to say. So they can happen at different times or perhaps number 1 does not happen.

[Gideon300]

Some have said, that the AC from the revived Roman Empire, will have Jewish roots, back in his family lineage. Zola Levitt, a Believing Jew, used to say that the AC would most likely not be fully Jewish, and that not all Jews at the time will agree to the AC. Some will, some wont, as has been the Jewish tradition Zola said.

I've heard the same thing. Many people believe Daniel 11:37 confirms that he will have Jewish lineage, or ancestry. But, others state that Revelation confirms he will not be Jewish because he comes from the "sea," which is a symbolic term for the gentile nations of the world, and the False Prophet will be Jewish because he comes from the "land."

[Gideon300]

All I am saying is that in the context of this thread (Gog/Magog) there are 2 statements that were being made. I'm just showing that both can not be true at the same time.

1:Israel will accept AC as messiah. (I am not saying I do or don't believe this.)
2:Gog/Magog will bring about Israel's return to God. (I do believe this because the scripture says so clearly.)

1 and 2 can't happen at the same time...Turning to God and turning to a false messiah. That is all I was trying to say. So they can happen at different times or perhaps number 1 does not happen.

Just keep in mind that #1 is not listed in scripture, it is only speculation.

[bek1]

Just keep in mind that #1 is not listed in scripture, it is only speculation.

And I think what Justin is saying is if you are going to speculate, be sure it doesn't contradict scripture. If you think scripture teaches Israel focussed on God again at the beginning of the tribulation as you say (the result of Gog/Magog) then this would contradict the idea that they will at that same time think that the AC is their Messiah.

IMO it's very possible that Israel will mistake the AC for the Messiah at the beginning, and realize later (mid trib) that he isn't. But this doesn't contradict my take on Gog/Magog, since I think it may be at the end of the trib when it seems more appropriate to place it based on the end result being a righted relationship with God (but we've been there before and don't need to go in circles with that....I can agree to disagree. :) ) My point is...it would seem wise to speculate in sink with your understanding of scripture rather than contradictory to it. If I am misunderstanding something, I would be more than interested in hearing how Israel can look to the AC as their possible Messiah while at the same time being restored to God...? Because the way I am understanding your perspective is that Israel is at this time, restored to God, but then there is speculation that they will also mistake the AC as the Messiah.

[4EverHis]

This "idea" that Israel cannot "sin", while under the Covenant of God, is silly. My goodness, if we just read the OT, that has been the history of Gods relationships with His people for thousands of years. Moses stood there, fresh off the mountain, with the Ten Commandments in His hand, and they still rebelled and "sinned". They "sinned" against God in the desert, which earned them a forty year trek. There is no contradiction between God restoring His Covenant with His people, and some of them either not believing, or following a false Messiah. The AC will be in Israel, who do you think is going to help him? He doesn’t fight alone when Armageddon occurs. God does not say in His Word that either His Son is involved in Ezekiel 38, or the AC, because they are not there. He didn’t forget to mention it, it is plain flat not there. There appears to be a pattern here, of questions answered, answers to those questions not acknowledged, but instead, responded to with another question, and the original answers ignored. This is about Gods Word, that is our True source to reference.

[Gideon300]

And I think what Justin is saying is if you are going to speculate, be sure it doesn't contradict scripture. If you think scripture teaches Israel focussed on God again at the beginning of the tribulation as you say (the result of Gog/Magog) then this would contradict the idea that they will at that same time think that the AC is their Messiah.



Bek1, I don't think it, I know it. God states it clearly in the Bible. If not, again in circles we go, there would be no third temple, period.

Israel accepting AC as their Messiah is not in scripture unlike the restoration of the Old Testament Covenant is, though.

[JustinSolo]

Just keep in mind that #1 is not listed in scripture, it is only speculation.

Agreed.

[JustinSolo]

Bek1, I don't think it, I know it. God states it clearly in the Bible. If not, again in circles we go, there would be no third temple, period.

Israel accepting AC as their Messiah is not in scripture unlike the restoration of the Old Testament Covenant is, though.

God states that HE turns His attention to Israel again in the 70th week of Daniel. But it is speculation to say that Israel serves God.

You can build a third temple and not serve God. You can resume sacrifices and not serve God. You can obey hundreds of commands and not serve God. I mean right now they are preparing for these very things and not serving God. Until they accept that Jesus is God, they are not serving God.

I don't think it is fair to assume that just because they build a temple and perform sacrifices that they have a right relationship with God. I know plenty of people today who either go to church or 'read' the Bible and are NOT serving God.

[JustinSolo]

This "idea" that Israel cannot "sin", while under the Covenant of God, is silly. My goodness, if we just read the OT, that has been the history of Gods relationships with His people for thousands of years. Moses stood there, fresh off the mountain, with the Ten Commandments in His hand, and they still rebelled and "sinned". They "sinned" against God in the desert, which earned them a forty year trek. There is no contradiction between God restoring His Covenant with His people, and some of them either not believing, or following a false Messiah.

Your arguments here are against positions that are not being held. No one is saying they can't sin. Of course they can sin. Humans sin. And yes, it is possible for God to renew a covenant and some not to believe. But no where does it state in chapter 39 that God is 'renewing a covenant'. It says things like..."I will not let them profane My holy name anymore" and "the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day forward." The question is, what does that mean? To answer that I would ask the following question...In what way is Israel today profaning God's Holy Name?
Not following OT rules and regulations? I don't think that is it at all. They profane his Holy name by not believing in Yeshua, their savior AND God. That Holy name is being profaned by their unbelief. :hat