The Battle of Gog and Magog

[JIL]

I'd disagree. There are lots of references to Russia being Magog. Jack Kelley mentioned that there were over 130. Chuck Missler names a few as well. Magog popularly refers to Russia and the former Soviet Union.

Kelley goes off scofield. They all do. Nowhere is the term Russia in the Bible. Rosh does not mean Russia and Moscow has always been Moscow.

Maybe this will at least cause a few people to think about it a little bit.

http://www.velocity.net/~edju/PForum/Moscow7.htm

[Chris]

Here's a few links to scholarly articles and other articles that show Magog is indeed Russia and the southern Republics. The majority of Bible scholars, commentators, etc. see Magog as Russia. It has lots of scholarly and historical backing. :)

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/rusisrl.htm

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2002/427/

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2006/663/

http://joelrosenberg.blogspot.com/2005/05/war-of-gog-and-magog-understanding.html


Gog is described as being "of the land of Magog" and as the “prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal.” Most Bible scholars believe Gog is not a name but a title, like Pharoah or Czar. He is a dictator who will hatch an "evil plan" (38:10).

* Magog = Leading Bible scholars say this is Russia and republics of the former Soviet Union. The first century Roman historian Josephus said the "Magogites" were the peoples whom the Greeks called "Scythians." Scythians were a fierce, blood-thirsty civilization that settled north of the Baltic Sea in what is now Russia and the European republics of the former USSR.

http://brittgillette.com/WordPress/?p=32


Magog, Meshech, and Tubal = Russia
Persia = Iran
Cush = Ethiopia
Put = Libya
Gomer = Turkey
Beth-togarmah = Turkey, Armenia, and the Turkish-speaking people of Asia Minor

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3338175,00.html
The Jews themselves place Magog as the Russians in the Vilna Goa (sp?)

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/finding-gog

http://www.ariel.org/mbs038e.htm

[metroames]

He goes into things a little more indepth in his book FOTM. but this gives an outline. :)

http://www.ariel.org/mbs038e.htm

I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but it might be a little bit before I get back with a well thought out answer as I just walked into work to a mess from a volcano erupting in Alaska onto our Pacific flight routes. I guess we have our next birth pang! :shocked

[Chris]

I don't want you to think I'm ignoring you, but it might be a little bit before I get back with a well thought out answer as I just walked into work to a mess from a volcano erupting in Alaska onto our Pacific flight routes. I guess we have our next birth pang! :shocked

I don't think you are ignoring me. You don't have to respond to it. I just posted it for information purposes. :)

[Victor]

Ash Cloud explosion 50,000 Feet High - lol's

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hcWJaxwgurm_TV9AVcObQBWbS25QD91SME600

I hope no one died, it was in Anchorage too - but they are saying it was Remote

[metroames]

Ash Cloud explosion 50,000 Feet High - lol's

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hcWJaxwgurm_TV9AVcObQBWbS25QD91SME600

I hope no one died, it was in Anchorage too - but they are saying it was Remote

LOL, I didn't want to derail this thread. :lol2 I started one over in the Last Days Forum. If I get a little time later I'll post some cool links over there for ya all. :thumb

[ReadyForDeparture]

I have carefully read several times the post of my brother in Christ, arkyCharlie. His alluded to point is that the very brief mention of Gog-Magog in Revelation 20 is the same war as detailed in Ezekiel. Many others have respectfully disagreed as do I. However I do have a couple of, so far unmentioned, details that show these cannot be the same war. I will expand on that in a minute but they involve the term "latter days", and the list of nations involved in the Gog-Magog conflict.

I whole-heartedly agree with Charlie that we need to use scripture in interpreting other scripture, when verses are available. If there is a major difference in similar scriptures and they do not agree with my interpretation, then I must have missed something, or there is just not enough there to be used for a proper full interpretation. For example, God hints at how heaven will be, without enough real details for us to know as much as we want to.

The Moonies cult in this country used Luke 14:26 to teach their converts to break with their family. The verse says, If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. They did this to brainwash their converts into not trusting their parents. But this verse cannot possibly literally mean what it seems to say out of context. One of the very 10 Commandments is to honor our parents. The gospel is full of teachings to love one another. So the Moonies are clearly wrong in their interpretation.

As far as the Hebrew word BETACH, I would like to say that "BETACH" does have a multitude of inferences as listed in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance.

Israel is living safely in their land within the context of some of the verses Charlie mentions. This "safety" is from the treacherous treatment Jews received for nearly 1900 years, mostly by the "church". Jews were murdered, run out of nations, and forced to live in constant threat and fear from the government of most nations where they were scattered after 70 AD. For example, Exekiel 28:26 needs verse 25 to be fully understood. Verse 25 shows that they will dwell safely AFTER God has restored their nation and gathered them from among the nations. Israel is already doing what verse 26 states, building houses, planting vineyards.... And God has repeatedly executed judgements (plural) against the surrounding nations in every single war they have started with Israel. Also, do the towns/cities have actual walls around them, and big gates that are locked at night. This was how cities were built in Ezekiel's day to be secure, but is anyone saying this is literally the case today in Israel? Their borders are certainly secure, but their cities today are not walled and gated are they? Soldiers are everywhere but the people still go about their daily business and are not living in fear. They are secure in their leadership and armed forces to protect them. Ezekiel 38:8 also includes them being brought out of the nations as a part of their "secure" position. I could go on but I think the point is made that "securely" does not mean that they are just militarily safe, but safe as a people from tyrany at the whim of a Czar, or German dictator. They are secure because they have their own nation.

Now the main two interpretation conflicts I clearly see between Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20.
LATTER DAYS

"Latter Days"- Exekiel 38:8 After many days you shall be visited and mustered [for service]; in the latter years you shall go against the land that is restored from the ravages of the sword, where people are gathered out of many nations upon the mountains of Israel, which had been a continual waste; but its [people] are brought forth out of the nations and they shall dwell securely, all of them.

and in Ezekiel 38:16 And you shall come up against My people Israel like a cloud to cover the land. In the latter days I will bring you against My land, that the nations may know, understand, and realize Me when My holiness shall be vindicated through you, O Gog, before their eyes.

The Gog-Magog war is described as taking place at this "latter" time in history. The term "latter days" through-out all of prophetic scripture always speaks to the time before Christ's 2nd coming. Now, are we supposed to believe that in this one case in Ezekiel it means the brief time at the end of the millenial kingdom? When Satan is loosed from the pit, it is to reveal the spirit of rebellion and contempt for God and His people. The brief mention of the words Gog and Magog in Revelation 20 clearly seem to be pointing to this spirit of rebellion and dis-belief. It is a reminder to the reader back to the real Gog and Magog and what their end was.

LIST OF NATIONS IN THE GOG-MAGOG BATTLE

Ezekiel goes into detail as to who is involved in this attack on Israel. One by one they are mentioned and their locations specified for a few. It was clear in Ezekiels time who most of these nations were to Israel, but they were most likely not familiar with the peoples that migrated to the far north as compared to Egypt, Persia, and the like. Joel Rosenberg has done some excellent research on who these nations are in his book Epicenter.

But just so we have no doubt, God specifies the location of Gog-Magog as being in the utter most parts of the north. The Hebrew word used "TSAPHON" is described in Strong's Concordance as indicating only the north, as a quarter (of the globe), gloomy and dark. There is only one nation to the far north of Israel, Russia. But I digress from my main point....

In Revelation 20 Satan is loosed after the Millenial Kingdom and tries to lead a rebellion. It says he goes to the 4 corners of the earth to gather his army and that they number as the sands of the sea. The Amplied Bible reads like this:

7 And when the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his place of confinement,
8 And he will go forth to deceive and seduce and lead astray the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth--Gog and Magog--to muster them for war; their number is like the sand of the sea.
9 And they swarmed up over the broad plain of the earth and encircled the fortress of God's people (the saints) and the beloved city; but fire descended from heaven and consumed them.
10 Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).

Revelation shows no 7 year period to bury the dead. It mentions no Temple being built after this battle even though Ezekiel 40-48 give detailed information on building the temple. This clearly shows the Temple being built after the Gog-Magog war, but in Revelation the Temple has been there over 1000 years for Christ to sit in and rule the earth. Notice that the beast and fals prophet are already in the lake of fire. There is just no way for me to reconclie these MAJOR differences in the Revelation verses with the 2 chapters in Ezekiel. Too many other scriptures scream out at me that these cannot be the same war.

Anyway, that is my take on this subject, after also having studied prophetic scriptures for over 30 years since I was saved in 1975.

Pray for Israel in these coming months and for the USA which will be targeted by islam even more so after Israel strikes the nuclear sites in Iran.

Waiting for His return soon....... :yeah

Ready for Departure in Texas.......

[Buzzardhut]

The end of this age is very, very near. The six thousand years of man attempting to exercise dominion over planet earth are drawing to a close. The “two days” of Hosea 6:2 are also nearing their end. The little horn is alive and ruling “in his place”, and will soon put down three other horns as the curtain rises on the last act of the great drama of this age.
Man was given dominion
It's satan who is trying take control of the earth

[Arkycharlie]

Man was given dominion
It's satan who is trying take control of the earthThe first two shades of meaning of the word "dominion" in the Webster dictionary definition are:
1. Domain, meaning absolute ownership of land
2. Supreme authority

What I meant was that for 6,000? years, man has gone his own way apart from Yahweh, the God of Israel, and has acted as if it was man who had absolute ownership of and supreme authority over planet earth. Perhaps I used the wrong word, but this is what I was trying to say. It is certainly Lucifer/"the devil" who has successfully deluded man into this thinking, IMO.

[ReadyForDeparture]

To my brother Charlie I can only say that I look forward to sitting down under one of the many trees of life in the new Jesusalem and having fun discussing all of these ideas from the "other " side.

Revelation 22: 1-2
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month.

It will be so fascinating to see all that God has done and revealed to us that we missed, or that we got right, so-to-speak. Those of us on this site are all cut from a similar cloth in our excitment for His revealing and in our love of the Word.

Just as a side note: The Betach argument for me was a minor one on the Gog-Magog subject compared to the "latter days" and "list of nations" involved in the two scriptures in Ezekiel and Revelation......

I know we will all find each other and have a special fellowship in heaven because of our love of prophecy and our certainty of it's FULLfillment....

Ready for Departure :hug