The Battle of Gog and Magog

[Arkycharlie]

RFP and Chris, you guys are the best!!!!! and I mean that very sincerely!

[Arkycharlie]

Guys, I became extremely convicted at church this evening. I am writing this shortly after walking in the door. My opening to the earlier Gog-Magog thread was prideful, antagonistic, unbrotherly, and uncalled for. I am ashamed and very chagrined as I type these words. I sincerely ask for the forgiveness of everyone who read and/or contributed to the thread and I give my word as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ that I will conduct myself more appropriately around here in the future. I want to thank Brother Chris for how he conducted himself as an Admin. He went above and beyond, in my opinion, and I think that Rapture Ready is very blessed to have him on their team, and I have been thinking along those lines for the past couple of days. Chris, I would love to meet you in person because I sense that you have a wonderful spirit in you.

OK, can I try this again? I won't blame anyone if I am just ignored because that is really what I deserve.

I spent at least twenty years in my love and study of prophecy doing what most folks do. I read the Scriptures, thought I can't make heads or tails of this, and started collecting books by people that I thought I could trust to help me make sense of it. Probably my all time favorites have been Arnold Fruchtenbaum and Grant Jeffrey. I have met them both in person and think to this day that they are both greatly gifted of God. About ten years ago, I discovered an author who kind of pointed me to another way. Having practically memorized the views of what I considered the best of the best of Dispensational Bible Prophecy authors, and having accumulated a few language study tools, I became encouraged to begin a deeper study of prophecy by actually getting into the Hebrew text to study and try to understand the messages of the prophets for myself. Our English translations of the Bible serve a very wonderful purpose, and are indispensible in spreading the Gospel and general Bible study, but you there is so much that you miss if you never go beyond your various translations. I've taught myself a bit of Hebrew, and I am blessed re that my Pastor teaches Biblical Hebrew at the seminary level, and I ask for his advice on passages occasionally. I can't begin to describe the blessings that I have received, including the excitement of making "new" discoveries from time to time. And for all I know, maybe most of you guys do this already. I don't sense that, but I could certainly be wrong.

Anyway, what I really was wanting to suggest in this thread, and failed so miserably at in my first effort, was that we put aside to some degree the theories and interpretations of the scholars and those who are generally considered Bible Prophecy experts on this particular topic, and examine the text for ourselves to see what we might be able to agree is a reasonable understanding of when it will occur, that is, is it before the Lords return or during the MK. I think that there is nothing whatsoever to be lost and very much to be gained. If the interpretations of your favorite authors and scholars are confirmed, you have still gained a better understanding of the text by your own indepth analysis and you are better able to teach or explain your understanding to others.

I would like to share a "discovery" that I made today. I was thinking about something that ReadyForDeparture had written:

Just as a side note: The Betach argument for me was a minor one on the Gog-Magog subject compared to the "latter days" and "list of nations" involved in the two scriptures in Ezekiel and Revelation...... I appreciated our brother for sharing that comment and found it very interesting. Although the nations involved didn't really pique my curiousity, the "latter days" comment really did. I did some word studies and discovered something brand new to me that I had never seen before regarding the Gog-Magog invasion and the phrase, “after many days”. I was really blown away. Scripture is so precise and it is all there if one can understand what the text really says and connect all the threads. The Lord told us: Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets …and how true that is! I am still sorting out what I learned today but will hopefully be able to explain it coherently soon.

If there is anyone who would be interested in a somewhat indepth look at the text of Ezekiel 38 and 39 to try and gain a better understanding of when this event will occur, that is what I would very much enjoy participating in. And I am coming from a position that the first order of business of this unfulfilled prophecy is "when", because until that is established, the “who” cannot be reliably determined.

It’s getting late and I am not prepared to offer any more on this tonight. If anyone expresses an interest, I will gladly provide some comments on the text tomorrow or will be interested on commentary from others. And since you've made it this far, many thanks for listening!

Blessings!!!

charlie

[Chris]

Charlie,
Thank you for your kind words. Don't feel bad about the earlier thread. Everything is cool. We all get passionate about our views and that is fine. There's going to be moments when we all get carried away, and that includes all of us. :) :hug

Good luck in your study. :)

[4EverHis]

Charlie,
Thank you for your kind words. Don't feel bad about the earlier thread. Everything is cool. We all get passionate about our views and that is fine. There's going to be moments when we all get carried away, and that includes all of us. :) :hug

Good luck in your study. :)

Ditto :wave

[kcaskew]

Its all good, we are human....

[sublimeone]

Charlie,

Your earlier posts interested me greatly. I would like to hear more.

Thanks

[Hal4511]

I'll give you 5***** on that ...

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Its all good, we are human....

:nod :thumb

[4EverHis]

Charlie, :hug I understand your passion of the interpretation of the Bible in certain languages, whether in Greek, or Hebrew, or Latin for that matter. There can be multiple applications of just one word depending on the word used. Keep in mind our loving Heavenly Father, knowing we are His children, does not always explain things to us in a complicated manner. Just as we as a loving parent, would not explain something to our children in a complicated manner. Why? because we love them and don’t want them to get confused. For me personally, the Holy Spirit is great at keeping me in check, and I trust Him for discernment with scripture. It's so very easy for us to go off into our own interpretations. :lol2 That being said, here is a brief initial reason why JMHO, I believe that Ezekiel:38, will occur at the beginning of the Trib,the trigger for the beginning of the Trib, and not occur during the Trib. IMHO, Ezekiel: 38 does not happen during the Tribulation. It is the reason for the final peace treaty. It may possibly happen directly after the Damascus Isaiah: 17, Iran attack. That will be the hook in the jaw, the scripture mentions, that causes Russia to come against Israel. And as we've seen the Lord work, these events can happen back to back, very quickly. Ezekiel: 38 is when God brings the Israeli's back to Him, reawakens them, the Church is gone.
Ezekiel 38: 23
23. And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD.'
After Ezekiel :38, Israel will then have witnessed the Miracle of God. They will be ripe and ready for their Messiah, build a Temple, resume worship etc. They will be ready and eager to sign a peace agreement, tired of war. Enter AC, whom they will believe to be the Messiah, as he will bring a peace, but a false peace. The Tribulation begins the moment the peace agreement is signed.
Daniel 9:27
27.He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.
JMHO, some initial reasons why I believe Ezekiel 38 occurs before the Tribulation:
* Not the Mid Trib- The Israeli's have to start to run for their lives (run to Petra where God does indeed protect them for 3 1/2 years) immediately after the mid point, so they cant spend seven months burying their own dead, let alone the dead of the Russian invasion forces.
Ezekiel 39:12-13
12. “For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them in order to cleanse the land. 13. All the people of the land will bury them, and the day I am glorified will be a memorable day for them, declares the Sovereign LORD"

Also, being on the run, they don’t have time to gather seven years worth of weapons, and why would they be burning weapons when they need them for protection.

*Not at the End of Trib Israel is involved in a life or death struggle against the Antichrist, and would not be living peacefully. No Israeli is safe until just after the end of the Tribulation

Again, Israelis are fleeing for their lives, no time to bury the dead.
The birds, not Israel, clean up the bodies at the end of the Tribulation Rev:17

Should the Rapture occur between Isaiah :17 and Ezekiel :38, that would embolden Russia, as the U.S. (mostly Christians) would be in chaos. After the Church is removed, God turns His attention to His First Born, The Apple of His Eye, the Jewish people. Ezekiel 38 is all about God bringing His people back to Him. No one (including the US) is there to assist Israel, only God.
Ezekiel 38:23
23.Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

He even gives the Jewish people a commemorative day:
Ezekiel 39:13
13. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to
them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

* God is very specific in Ezekiel: 38, about naming who the enemies of Israel are, and he doesn’t name the AC. If it were to take place during the Tribulation, and the AC is in charge, would God not mention him as one of Israel’s enemies? The AC is mentioned at the end, Armageddon when Christ himself takes him out. God clearly states, that He is bringing specific enemies against Israel, not Israel and the AC (who during the Trib would be in Israel)
* We know the first three years and a half years of the Trib, the AC is establishing himself in Israel, as the world leader. The second half of the Trib, he is exposed as the AC, and the Scripture says that the Jews flee Israel.
Again Ezekiel: 38, is God drawing the Jewish people back to Him, and He protects Israel, He doesn’t say they are "fleeing". And why would He protect Israel if the AC was there in charge?
This is an event where God is clearly reestablishing His relationship with the Jewish people. Ezekiel 39:7 “‘I will make known My Holy name among My people Israel".

JMHO :)
God Bless

[BigSuze]

Would love to hear what you are learning. I am presently studying classical and koine Greek, and look forward to beginning my study of Hebrew in the fall. Being able to read the original languages is a blessing, but since not everyone has the opportunity to learn them, sharing what we learn with others is a must! Please share.