The Battle of Gog and Magog

[4EverHis]

Would love to hear what you are learning. I am presently studying classical and koine Greek, and look forward to beginning my study of Hebrew in the fall. Being able to read the original languages is a blessing, but since not everyone has the opportunity to learn them, sharing what we learn with others is a must! Please share.

FYI, if you would like a Hebrew lesson for scripture, once a month, in obviously small intervals, I would recommend Zola Levitt ministries. He was a Jewish believer in Christ, and the ministry is very reputable. Fascinating to study Christ from a Jewish perspective. They have a free monthly publishing called the Levitt Letter, in which at they have a detailed Hebrew lesson for a verse of Scripture every month. You can also view it online at their web site http://www.levitt.com/. :)

[Chris]

FYI, if you would like a Hebrew lesson for scripture, once a month, in obviously small intervals, I would recommend Zola Levitt ministries. He was a Jewish believer in Christ, and the ministry is very reputable. Fascinating to study Christ from a Jewish perspective. They have a free monthly publishing called the Levitt Letter, in which at they have a detailed Hebrew lesson for a verse of Scripture every month. You can also view it online at their web site http://www.levitt.com/. :)

Good idea. :thumb

I get the Levitt Letter by mail and I know what you are talking about, it is great!! :thumb It is a very good column in there on the Hebrew language and meanings. The guy that writes the column is John Parsons. I've talked with him via email and he seems like a really nice fellow. :)

His website has a ton of lessons on Hebrew for those who are interested in it. The site is at:

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/

[4EverHis]

Good idea. :thumb

I get the Levitt Letter by mail and I know what you are talking about, it is great!! :thumb It is a very good column in there on the Hebrew language and meanings. The guy that writes the column is John Parsons. I've talked with him via email and he seems like a really nice fellow. :)

His website has a ton of lessons on Hebrew for those who are interested in it. The site is at:

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/

Excellent Chris!

[saint-in-training]

Go to Israel and Mid East News for the thread titled MU nations agree to zone free of WMDs. Interesting discussion kind of focusing in on part being the Gog/Magog war.
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=52692

[kmeyer]

This is my first post and I just have a question? Regarding the war from Ezekial 38 and 39, the war of Gog and Magog, will the rapture have taken place before or after this event?

I posted a question regarding this topic just a few minutes ago. I didn't read your entire thread, not sure what you are apologizing for, BUT I am very interested in this topic. Here is my question (posted on another thread): Will we all be here to witness this battle of gog and magog? Or, is the rapture to have taken place before? My curiosity is killing me...

[Minori]

No one knows for sure. I suspect that the Rapture may happen before or during this event. But we have little more than speculation. Nothing has to occur for the Rapture to occur.

[BornAgain123]

The ones I've read said this war will happen pretrib. However-everyone seems to be split on whether the rapture will happen either before this war or during.

Here's a very good web site explaining things. It's one guy's opinion somewhat, but he seems to know his stuff nonetheless.

http://bereamenn.tripod.com/id7.html

Either way-FASTEN YOUR SEAT BELTS. Everything seems to be accelerating at a RAPID pace now.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

The ones I've read said this war will happen pretrib. However-everyone seems to be split on whether the rapture will happen either before this war or during.

Here's a very good web site explaining things. It's one guy's opinion somewhat, but he seems to know his stuff nonetheless.

http://bereamenn.tripod.com/id7.html

Either way-FASTEN YOUR SEAT BELTS. Everything seems to be accelerating at a RAPID pace now.


I tend to agree with much of the link that you posted.

Especially where the writer wrote: "I believe the pretribulation rapture will happen at the Gog & Magog war of Ezekiel 38-39, which will be falsely claimed to be the actual Armageddon." And then he goes on to describe many of the similarities that may be used to convince people of this deception, making them think it is right and true.

It seems to exactly fit what 2 Thess. 2:10-12 says is the reason that God sends the strong delusion... "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved" and "... who believed not the truth..." (of salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ's finished work alone.)



(I also believe that the Gog-Magog War occurs simultaneous with the rapture. JMHO, based on the text [Ezekiel 38-39] and parallel passages.)

[Arkycharlie]

Guys, I appreciate the advice on the Hebrew lessons! I will check that out.

Yesterday, I was thinking about the comment made by ReadyForDeparture, who is obviously a very serious student of the Prophetic Word, that he was greatly persuaded by “the latter days” language in 38:8 as strongly indicating a premillennial fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 and 39. That really caught my attention because I could not recall having ever focused on this particular portion of the Hebrew text myself. Here is the verse from the NKJV:
8 After many days you will be visited. In the latter years you will come into the land of those brought back from the sword and gathered from many people on the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate; they were brought out of the nations, and now all of them dwell safely. “In the latter years” was inconclusive to me but a study of the “after many days” phrase was an eye-opening study for me. I find it difficult to try and convey nuances of the Hebrew text without having the Hebrew text in view in these messages, but I will do my best. I made what I consider a thorough search of the Hebrew text of the Old Testament for the phrase, “after many days”, where it is specifically referring to prophesied events of the last days. I have a Hebrew concordance of the Old Testament keyed to Strongs numbering. I looked at every instance of “many” (Hebrew rab) and “days” (Hebrew Yowm) to find where these two words appeared together forming the phrase, “after many days”. There are a quite a few instances of this phrase. However, I was trying to narrow down the search to instances where the phrase was specifically referring to prophecies of last days events. I could find only two such instances. The one in Ezekiel 38:8 and in the Isaiah 24. Here is the passage in Isaiah where I found it:

19 The earth is violently broken,
The earth is split open,
The earth is shaken exceedingly.
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard,
And shall totter like a hut;
Its transgression shall be heavy upon it,
And it will fall, and not rise again.
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be disgraced
And the sun ashamed;
For the LORD of hosts will reign
On Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
And before His elders, gloriously.

Verse 22 kind of stunned me, when I considered the implications of what I was reading in the context of the Gog/Magog discussion. I don’t expect anyone to just take my word for it, so I invite you to take a look for yourselves, but verse 22 is a very unique and very interesting verse of Scripture. As I said, it has one of only two instances of the phrase “after many days” that relate specifically to the coming events of the last days. It also uses a word that is found nowhere else in the Hebrew text of the Old Testament. That in itself draws attention to the verse. So let me try and break it down for you.

In the Hebrew, the phrase “and after many days” or just “after many days” appears to be only two words. The conjunction “and” is prefixed (joined) to words where it is used and the actual preposition used here is “from” rather than “after”. “From” is one of four Hebrew prepositions that are called “inseparably prefixed”. That means that they are always prefixed, or joined at the beginning of any word where they are used to show relationship, and never appear separately in the text. Anyway, in the Isaiah text, the literal meaning and word order of the text is “and from many days”. In Ezekiel, it is literally “from days many”. Why the reverse order of “days” and “many”, I’m still trying to figure out. But the phrases mean essentially the same thing, although I am sure that there is some nuance of meaning that I am missing. And one more time, I can find no other uses of this Hebrew phrase relating to coming events of these last days.

Let’s now look at the word in verse 22 that is used nowhere else in the Hebrew text. Here is the verse again from Young's and NASB:


22 And they have been gathered -- A gathering of bound ones in a pit, And shut up they have been in a prison, And after a multitude of days are inspected.. (Young’s Literal Translation)


22 They will be gathered together
Like prisoners in the dungeon,
And will be confined in prison;
And after many days they will be punished. (NASB)
Youngs’s literal gives a better rendering of the phrase “gathered—a gathering”. It is an unusual construction and the second “gathering” is from a Hebrew word (acephah, Strongs #626) that is found nowhere else in the Old Testament, drawing attention to the fact that there is more than meets the eye here. This is a very special “gathered—a gathering” and should be treated as such in our studies.

The word translated “punished” (paqad) is also the same word translated “punish” in verse 21 preceding. “Punish” is a very arbitrary choice in translating this fairly common Hebrew word and may very well be misleading in this passage. It is used the very first time in Scripture in Genesis 21:1:

Then the Lord took note of Sarah as He had said, and the Lord did for Sarah as He had promised.

The final word to look at is "the pit” (bowr) in verse 22. This is the word seen in Young’s translation above but rendered “dungeon” in the NASB. Personally, the translators drive me crazy with this stuff! Anyway, there is little doubt what is meant here. Other passages where the word is used are shown below:

Eze 26:20
When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;
Eze 31:14
To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.
Eze 31:16
I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
Eze 32:18
Son of man, wail for the multitude of Egypt, and cast them down, even her, and the daughters of the famous nations, unto the nether parts of the earth, with them that go down into the pit.
Eze 32:23
Whose graves are set in the sides of the pit, and her company is round about her grave: all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which caused terror in the land of the living.
Eze 32:24
There is Elam and all her multitude round about her grave, all of them slain, fallen by the sword, which are gone down uncircumcised into the nether parts of the earth, which caused their terror in the land of the living; yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit.
Eze 32:25
They have set her a bed in the midst of the slain with all her multitude: her graves are round about him: all of them uncircumcised, slain by the sword: though their terror was caused in the land of the living, yet have they borne their shame with them that go down to the pit: he is put in the midst of them that be slain.
Eze 32:29
There is Edom, her kings, and all her princes, which with their might are laid by them that were slain by the sword: they shall lie with the uncircumcised, and with them that go down to the pit.
Eze 32:30
There be the princes of the north, all of them, and all the Zidonians, which are gone down with the slain; with their terror they are ashamed of their might; and they lie uncircumcised with them that be slain by the sword, and bear their shame with them that go down to the pit.

So let’s try and summarize what we have here. Here’s our passage in question, one more time:


Isaiah:24
21 It shall come to pass in that day
That the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones,
And on the earth the kings of the earth.
22 They will be gathered together,
As prisoners are gathered in the pit,
And will be shut up in the prison;
After many days they will be punished.



“After many days” is a unique Biblical phrase, when used in connection with prophecies of the last days. In this connection, it is found only in Isaiah 24:22 and Ezekiel 38:8. In Ezekiel, we are told that it is “after many days” that Gog and Magog will be drawn out of the far recesses of the north to attack Israel, when they are dwelling safely, all of them.

In the Isaiah passage, we’re informed that when the Lord vents His righteous anger and appeases His wrath against this sin-cursed and rebellious world, there are two classes of beings who will be the object of special attention. In the heavens, “the host of exalted ones”, and on the earth, “the kings of the earth.” Clearly, to me at least, this refers to the celestial beings that joined Satan, the devil, in his rebellion against God and to the earthly leaders who led their nations against Israel in the climactic battles of the Great Tribulation and Day of the Lord. At that time, these two classes of beings will be confined to “the pit” which is the nether world where they will await their final judgment. “After many days”, they will face the God of the universe to receive their final judgment. I don’t believe that, based on Scripture, there is any reasonable doubt as to exactly when that final judgment will occur.


Revelation 20

1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
Satanic Rebellion Crushed

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The Great White Throne Judgment

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
12 [B]And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d]
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This has probably been confusing, and I apologize because I did my best to make it clear, That said, for me, the information provided from the Scrpture, rightly divided and understood, gives us a precise timetable as to exactlywhen the Gog and Magog invasion of Ezekiel 38 and 39 will take place. But that is just my opinion and I am as fallible as anyone around here. If there are any comments or questions, positive, negative, or whatever, I will try and address them. Your patience in wading through this whole thing is greatly appreciated. It was something of a struggle for me to put it together.

Blessings to all who read it!

charlie

[european]

Here's a few links to scholarly articles and other articles that show Magog is indeed Russia and the southern Republics. The majority of Bible scholars, commentators, etc. see Magog as Russia. It has lots of scholarly and historical backing. :)

http://www.grantjeffrey.com/article/rusisrl.htm

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2002/427/

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2006/663/

http://joelrosenberg.blogspot.com/2005/05/war-of-gog-and-magog-understanding.html



http://brittgillette.com/WordPress/?p=32



http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3338175,00.html
The Jews themselves place Magog as the Russians in the Vilna Goa (sp?)

http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/finding-gog

http://www.ariel.org/mbs038e.htm

In regards to the Scythians being Russians, I'm afraid you are wrong.
The Scythians were a nation of horse-riding nomadic pastoralists of Iranian stock. The Scythian language is a member of the Eastern Iranian languages, and the Scythians are a branch of the ancient Iranian peoples. The Sarmatians who came from central Asia, came during the late antiquity period to dominate the region. By 1 B.C, the Scythians had largely disappeared.

1st Century B.C Map
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/daniel_maco/Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png

Now it's time for the history lesson on Russia. The Russians of course are Slavs, the Slavs emerged as a recognizable group in Europe between the 3rd and 8th centuries AD. The first Slavic state was Kievan Rus, (map below). Kievan Rus arose in the 9th century and adopted Christianity from the Byzantine Empire in 988. Thus beginning the synthesis of Byzantine and Slavic cultures that defined Russian culture throughout its history, and continues to do so today.

11th Century A.D Map
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/daniel_maco/607px-Kievan_Rus_en.jpg

After many battles with the mongol armies(Tartars), Russia eventually expanded it's borders to what it is today. The Slavic people continued to migrate, with the mongols making way for them.

Here is anoth point of contention you must take into account.
Meshech, Tubal, Togarmah, Dedan and Syria traded with Tyre six centuries before Christ [Ezek.27:13-16].
How can Moscow be Meshech when it's only around 800 years old!!!

Conclusion: Russia is not Gog/Magog.