View Full Version : The Biblical Argument for the Rebuilding of Babylon *Merged*

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August 19th, 2010, 02:21 PM
I see your point. God didn't leave it to just one prophet or I'm sure that they would have done just that.

Hmm....depends which other prophets you have in mind. Zechariah, for example, wrote after Jeremiah died and mentioned Babylon, thus showing he believed in a rebuilt Babylon (as did John in Rev 17-18) but this doesn't prove Jeremiah did though, and thus IMO it doesn't resolve the "problem scenario" I outlined

November 11th, 2010, 03:47 PM
In revelation 17 + 18 the Bible mentions Babylon the great. I've read it, heard it preached two ways. This was old Babylon that has already been destroyed, and also have heard that Babylon the great, is described at the United States, so the United States is mentioned in scriputures. Does anyone have some solid concrete feedback on this?

GOD bless you all!

November 11th, 2010, 03:54 PM
Did you not read your Bible?

Babylon is that great City that rules over men. There is a spiritual aspect, a political one, and an economic one. It is the seat of Power the AC uses and eventually makes such a name for itself, God pours out a particular wrath upon it.

It sits on seven hills and has been traditionally connected to Rome.

There are other speculations but they are not Bible based. The US is not mentioned in scriptures. Those that have tried, stretch Scripture beyond breaking.

[13]No liberal left wing political agendas, pacifism, socialism, libertarianism, fascism, scientism, Tax Dodging, Anti-American Conspiracies, Anti-War Propaganda, or that the United States is Israel or Mystery Babylon. No "Financial Fear and panic, store ammo and cans" threads stressing America is going down the tubes and Jesus is leaving us stranded. No plotting to overthrow the American government. No Conspiracy theories such as FEMA camps....Practice your faith through prayer trusting God always providing our needs and never forsaking us.

November 11th, 2010, 03:55 PM
first of all, babylon the great is a city that rules over the earth. so it cannot be a country. my opinion is that it is New York City due to its economic prominence and the United Nations headquarters located there. The United Nations Security Council seems to be shaping into the beast government, but thats a whole other discussion.

November 11th, 2010, 04:16 PM
We are in this portion of God's Word right now and got cut short....right here. I attend a Calvary Chapel and our pastor uses the inductive method to teach, which never comes in with presumptions on the text. When we finish, I would be happy to put up the link to it next Monday. He has done an excellent job, a very literal teacher, uses the Bible to comment on itself. Since we started, there has only been one thing that I am not sure I agree with in interpretation (do not touch the oil and wine he likens to medicinal attributes for those at this time speaking of the Lord's great grace and mercy: I tend to think of these as luxuries and while most perish, these are left for the rich and the powerful---I like his interpretation better than mine because I love how the Lord is merciful and is so gracious), and we are in Revelation 17. We took 3 weeks just on chapter 1. What a journey it's been!

A Halley's Bible Handbook could be useful here as well. There is too much information to attempt posting, plus it's such a great resource that I would just encourage you to pick one up on the cheap on half.com or used off Amazon. Ironside's expository commentary on Revelation also does an excellent and thoroughly detailed job with the history of Babylon all the way back to the tower of Babel in Genesis.

November 11th, 2010, 05:18 PM
Well, I'm not sure what i believe about this :thinking

Teachers who are saying this is inerrant and the literal future outskirts of Baghdad?

uh, I'm just not convinced that's what it means at all :nope

Tall Timbers
November 11th, 2010, 05:30 PM
Babylon being NYC is wild speculation. Rome is less speculative. Scripture points to Babylon being the literal Babylon in Iraq. Physical Babylon should be rebuilt and become the Political, Economic and Religious capital of the world during Tribulation. "Footsteps of the Messiah", by Arnold Fruchtenbaum covers this topic pretty well.

November 11th, 2010, 05:35 PM
Here are some excerpts from a study I did about the Pre-Trib rapture:

The Babylonian religion will rise

The supernatural signs and wonders will not only be deceptive, but they will also give rise to a global cult. I believe the supernatural war of Ezekiel 38-39 will occur soon after the rapture and possibly at the beginning of the Tribulation. There will be no such thing as an atheist after this supernatural war. Based on the members of the confederacy of this War, followers of Islam will be severely judged and a majority will be killed. If the timing of this war occurs near the beginning of the Tribulation, those left after the rapture that claim Christianity and the survivors that are Muslim will be clamoring for answers as they reconsider what they had believed. We find that a multitude will find their answers in the Truth (Revelation 7:9-17), but many more will be swept away and deceived by the signs and wonders, as we saw in the last section.

Revelation 17 describes the first half of the Tribulation as being ruled by a harlot called "Mystery Babylon". Throughout the Old Testament, we see that someone was called a harlot when they sought after foreign gods instead of the One True God. So the harlot in Revelation 17 is a religious system that will follow after a false god or gods. To further understand what this religious system is, we need to go back to Genesis 10, where we are introduced to a mighty hunter named Nimrod who built and ruled over the city of Babel. Turning over to Genesis 11, we see that the people of this city tried to build a tower to the heavens. We are told in verse 4 that the reason for building this tower was because they wanted to make a name for themselves. God had commanded them to spread out and fill the earth back in Genesis 9:1, but they decided instead, to stay in one area. By making a name for themselves with the tower, they were shaking their fists at God in rebellion. This original Babylonian system was simply that the people came together under the leadership of Nimrod to do their own will, rather than that of God. To stop this, God confused their language and forced them to scatter over the earth as He had commanded them to do in the first place.

Historical accounts tell us that Nimrod's wife, Semiramis, believed that after Nimrod died he should be worshipped as a god. When her son Tammuz came along, she claimed that he was supernaturally conceived and purported that he was the Messiah promised back in Genesis 3:15. Out of this came the mother/son worship. We see this theme resonate in many of the ancient religions of the past and even still today for many in the Catholic Church. Mary has been made more prominent than Jesus by being prayed to or even worshiped by some Catholics. Interestingly, even the Muslims have a special reverence for Mary as they believe Jesus was a prophet. There are also many new age and cultic groups that worship the earth as a goddess.

The point here is, that the Babylonian system that was started under Nimrod, will come full circle as the religious system that Satan uses to deceive the masses at the beginning of the Tribulation. What is left of those that claim Christianity after the rapture and what is left of the Muslims after the war in Ezekiel 38-39, will readily buy into a religious system that already has a flavor of what they've always believed. In other words, most of the world religions could be brought together with the beliefs that many of them already have in common: a savior or prophet born of a virgin or a goddess.

Revelation 17:6 tells us that the harlot is drunk with the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus. Apparently, anyone that doesn't buy into the Mystery Babylon religion will be seen as a traitor or infidel worthy of death. The Muslims already believe that, but Christianity has also had an ugly history of killing people that didn't convert to their religion. There will certainly have to be a strong delusion at the beginning of the Tribulation that would bring all faiths together that would be so adamant that all should convert or die.

Amazingly, many of the faiths of the world are already trying to find common ground for peace and understanding. They believe that there can't be world peace without peace between all religions first. Interfaith conferences and events are rapidly on the rise. Churches or other religious groups that refuse to be a part of these activities have been accused of being intolerant, extreme or hateful. Ironically, the religious system that will rise out of this growing movement at the beginning of the Tribulation will be all of those things.

Abomination of desolation - The end of Mystery Babylon

The "abomination of desolation" will mark the point that the antichrist starts to take full reign. Earlier we saw that the Mystery Babylon religion will be the tool Satan uses to bring the world together. The Bible tells us that before the antichrist takes full power, the world will be under the leadership of ten rulers. These ten rulers eventually will destroy the Mystery Babylon religion and hand their power over to the antichrist:

Revelation 17:15-17 Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

I believe that the "abomination of desolation" and the destruction of the Babylonian religion will come after the antichrist is resurrected from the dead (Revelation 17:8). The world will be able to watch this happen via satellite technology or the internet. After they witness this, it is not hard to see how the world would readily accept the antichrist to be their god. It's probable that the ten leaders will kill whoever the religious leader or leaders of the Babylonian religion are at that time, based on the gruesome picture of the Harlot being destroyed that we see in Revelation 17 above.

In spite of other religions being persecuted by the Mystery Babylon religion, the Jewish religion apparently will be protected under the covenant during the first half of the Tribulation. This is because we see that the sacrifices at the Jewish Temple will continue until the antichrist stops them. After the Temple is defiled, anybody that gets caught worshiping any god other than the antichrist will be killed. The false prophet institutes the mark of the beast system to enforce, through vital economic means, the worship of the antichrist (Revelation 13).

When the 5th Seal Judgment is broken early in the Tribulation, believers will widely be martyred for their faith. During the first half of the Tribulation we saw that most of the persecutors will be of the Mystery Babylon religion (Revelation 17:6). However, later when the antichrist is given full control, the Tribulation Saints will then be overcome by the system of the Beast:

Revelation 13:7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

Babylon destroyed

Earlier we talked about the "Mystery Babylon" religious system and how it will be destroyed when the antichrist begins to take over control of the world (Revelation 17). Revelation 18 speaks of a different Babylon. This Babylon will be a physical city which will be the headquarters and throne of the antichrist's rule.

Ancient Babylon in recent history has been in ruins, but is now emerging as a potential tourist city. Before the United States helped to liberate Iraq, Saddam Hussein had been pouring millions of dollars into the renovation and rebuilding of many of the ancient artifacts and ruins in Babylon. There are plans being made by the newly liberated country to continue to rebuild the ancient city. Revelation 18 tells us that Babylon will become a very great city during the Tribulation. This leads some to believe that we may be many decades away from the return of Christ, because it will take time to rebuild Babylon. That thought was put to rest when the city of Dubai, in the United Arab Emirates, was built up to be a great city in a matter of a few years.

On the heels of the 5th Bowl Judgment of darkness being poured out on the city, Babylon will be utterly destroyed and burned to the ground. This will be judgment on the world's greed as we see the world will mourn the loss of the luxuries the city offered:

Revelation 18:9-11 "The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, 'Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.' "And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore

November 11th, 2010, 05:42 PM
Babylon being NYC is wild speculation. Rome is less speculative. Scripture points to Babylon being the literal Babylon in Iraq. Physical Babylon should be rebuilt and become the Political, Economic and Religious capital of the world during Tribulation. "Footsteps of the Messiah", by Arnold Fruchtenbaum covers this topic pretty well.

When you say "should" I'm not sure where you're getting that?

I have always felt that the over-the-top embassy complex and additional
development projects announced since, are very convincing elements,
but If this is indeed the case I would think it would have to ramp
up dramatically. Definitely possible, but time will tell.

November 11th, 2010, 05:46 PM
AND, why do we have the prominence of "harbors" and "ships"

see? that doesn't fly with literal Babylon the way I see it.

Of course you can get into metaphors etc. but IMO, that is not the case here.