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View Full Version : The Biblical Argument for the Rebuilding of Babylon *Merged*



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steve78
November 11th, 2010, 07:43 PM
Do you have the verse references? I've not seen this before.

Noted for its elegant, luxurious, refined and rich lifestyles. Isaiah 47:1-8; Revelation 17: 4-5; 18:2-24. This does not match up with Iraq, as it is not capable of reaching such levels of wealthy living standards in our lifetime.

Extremely wealthy. Jeremiah 51:13…… Revelation 18: 2-19

Sensual, materialistic lifestyle. Isaiah 47: 8; Revelation 18:14

The highest living standards. Isaiah 47:1 Revelation 18: 14

Intoxicating high-society lifestyle as a world example to emulate. Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 14, 23.

Elegant, sumptuous lifestyle. Revelation 18: 14, 23.

Noted for its bright gaudy-colored lights and nightlife with round the-clock partying. Revelation 18:14. Note the words "dainty" and "goodly." Dainty is a word in Greek that connotes to 24-hour parties, and is connoted with orgies and debauchery. The word for "goodly" is the Greek word "lampra" from which we get the English word for lamp. In this case it carries the idea of bright, gaudy-colored lights, with idea of "glitzy" lights. Could it be the bright lights of Broadway, Times Square or perhaps even Las Vegas???

Noted for its drugs and drug use. Isaiah 47: 9, 12. Revelation 18:23 Do we even need to comment on this one??? I think not……the text clearly speaks for itself on this one.

Noted for exporting its culture abroad. Revelation 18:14, 22

Noted for being wasteful and extravagant. Rev 18: 3, 7, 9, 14, 15; implied in Rev 17: 2.

Massive population. Rev. 18:15. And Revelation 17: 1, 15.

A land of immigrants. Jeremiah 50:16; 51:13; Rev. 17:1, 15.

Unique and awe-inspiring from its birth right up to its demise. Isa. 18: 2

A remarkably different heritage. Isaiah 18:2

Respected-envied and yet HATED by the whole world also. Isa. 18:2

Powerful and oppressive. Isaiah 18:2

Land of rebels in its birth. Jeremiah 51: 1; Isaiah 47: 9.

Cosmopolitan and urban. Jeremiah 50:32

A land of agriculture. Jeremiah 50: 16

An international city. Revelation 17: 18; 18:15

Architecture, buildings and skyline. Isaiah 13:22

Land of many waters (fresh waters) Jeremiah 51:13, 36, 42; Isa 18:1,2

Where the world’s leaders "stream" to meet. Jer. 51:44; Rev. 17:18 Last of the Super Powers. Jeremiah 50:12; Rev 17:18, 19; and in the Revelation 18:18 passage "what city is like the ‘‘mega city"……

No fear of invasion. Isaiah 47:5, 8; Revelation 18: 7

Defenses reach up to outer space. Jeremiah 51:53

Occult aspects, especially within the governmental leadership. Isaiah 47: 9, 12,13.

Alliances/Treaties allowing physical military bases of operation for the Satanic forces. Revelation 18: 2.

logosone
November 11th, 2010, 07:57 PM
I do agree that the way that what these passages clearly describe
and the way things currently stand that it just does not compute with Iraq.

The world took nearly a year to recover from 9-11. I want you to entertain
the notion of how long it will take to recover from the Rapture? :thinking
I mean think about it!

We've got all these squared away human ideas about years and time periods etc..

We really don't know do we? :nope

metroames
November 11th, 2010, 08:39 PM
I do agree that the way that what these passages clearly describe
and the way things currently stand that it just does not compute with Iraq.

The world took nearly a year to recover from 9-11. I want you to entertain
the notion of how long it will take to recover from the Rapture? :thinking
I mean think about it!

We've got all these squared away human ideas about years and time periods etc..

We really don't know do we? :nope

Neither did things compute for Israel to become a nation again. That is how "replacement theology" came to be. I believe that the more literal the interpretation the safer. :hat

Verisimilitude
November 11th, 2010, 08:50 PM
Why I believe mystery Babylon describes the roman catholic church:

Revelation 17:1 Says it is a great whore that sits on many waters; 17:15 says that the waters are peoples; nations; multitudes and tongues, so we no this is not any single nation but something that rules over the multitudes of many nations.

Revelation 17:18 says it is specifically a great city that rules over kings (leaders) of the earth.

Revelation 17:2 says these kings or leaders have committed fornication with the whore. The rcc at one time presumed itself to be ruler of the world and decided who could be king.

Revelation 17:3 mentions names of blasphemy. A few I can think of off the top of my head are: the one true church; the church in which the pope has the authority to speak for God making him the "vicar of Christ' and the church in which it's leader is known as the "holy father". Jesus used that term once and He was talking to God, the ONLY HOLY FATHER.

Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

This verse more than any other brings to mind the rcc with it's bishops parading around in purple and scarlet robes. The vatican is filthy rich, decked out with all sorts of ornate objects and jewels and most of all is the golden cup, or chalice as they call it, full of abomination. The chalice is used to hold the host that was once bread but by the priest saying the magical words "hoc est enim corpus meum" (reference "50 years in the church of rome by Charles Chiniquy, page 72), that bread becomes the literal body of Christ, once more sacrificed by romes priest.

Revelation 17:6, the woman is drunk with the blood of saints and martyrs. Who has killed Bible believing people? Who is it that forbid the Bible to be read by the common man and who tortured and executed people for disobeying that heretical rule? The answer of course is the roman catholic church who's hands are covered in the blood of those that worshipped the true Son of God rather than their weak image of Him. Saints who went directly to Jesus for salvation, not Mary and the roman catholic church.

I could go on, but I'm hoping you will see by now why the roman catholic church is the only institution that could possibly be referred to in Revelation 17. She is the city on 7 hills and in the first century, history records that because of it's idol worship, it was not unusual for people to refer to her as Babylon.

Revelation 18:4-6; 20And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

HeIsEnough
November 11th, 2010, 09:00 PM
In revelation 17 + 18 the Bible mentions Babylon the great. I've read it, heard it preached two ways. This was old Babylon that has already been destroyed, and also have heard that Babylon the great, is described at the United States, so the United States is mentioned in scriputures. Does anyone have some solid concrete feedback on this?

From the board rules.

[13]No liberal left wing political agendas, pacifism, socialism, libertarianism, fascism, scientism, Tax Dodging, Anti-American Conspiracies, Anti-War Propaganda, or that the United States is Israel or Mystery Babylon. No "Financial Fear and panic, store ammo and cans" threads stressing America is going down the tubes and Jesus is leaving us stranded. No plotting to overthrow the American government. No Conspiracy theories such as FEMA camps....Practice your faith through prayer trusting God always providing our needs and never forsaking us. Hebrews 13:5 (http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Hebrews%2013.5) Psalms 37:25 (http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Psalms%2037.25)

Carrie Grace
November 11th, 2010, 09:21 PM
Why I believe mystery Babylon describes the roman catholic church:



I tend to agree with you. I watched a five-part video series that so clearly spelled that out, with historical writings and artwork--not to mention the history of the RCC. Oh, and the fact that Rome has been referred to as "Babylon"--a few times in the Bible (Peter talks about going to Babylon when he was actually going to Rome), and lots of early writings from Rome also indicate this.

RRRobert
November 11th, 2010, 10:13 PM
In a sense, Ancient Babylon was used as a type of the end times "Babylon". It is quite possible the reason the city in question is given the name Babylon in the text is because the original audience would immediately understand the importance, centrality, and scale of the end times city the passages refer to. :candle

I do not believe the end times city called Babylon described in some passages, should necessarily be equated 100% with the mystery Babylon religion that is spoke of in Revelation 17, which is referred to as a person, specifically a woman and a harlot, and while the harlot may be located in Babylon, they are not one-and-the-same. One is a religious system, one is a city. The two may meet, but are still two things. Certainly the Vatican has both, so that does add weight to the argument that Rome/Vatican is end times Babylon and Catholicism or some aberration of it plays an important part of the mystery new-age ecumenical religion.

dleader
November 12th, 2010, 03:27 AM
The Babylonian mystery started long before the RCC so I do not think the RCC totally encompasses "Mystery Babylon". It spread all around the world centuries before Catholicism existed. The RCC is one form of the MB religion.
Before the 20th century it did not seem possible for "Israel" to be rebuilt in literal Israel. Of course we have seen what has happened there. I believe that Babylon as a literal rebuilt city and the mystery religion that originated from there will reunite there to take one last but deadly stand against God Almighty. It has caused so much wickedness and sin throughout the world since its origin millenia ago. The United States and New York City are only influenced from it and the length of time they have been around is but a flash in the pan. The relief will come from its influence when the angel in Rev 18 calls out, "Fallen!, Fallen is Babylon the Great! ..." That will be great cause for celebration. Thank you Jesus for delivering us from all forms of bondage!

resurrection torchlight
November 12th, 2010, 08:31 AM
My personal opinion is that mystery Babylon is Jerusalem itself. It sits on seven hills, it is historically the harlot throughout the old testament all of the prophets speak of Jerusalem playing the harlot.

Also just because merchants and shipping vessels mourn over her destruction doesn't mean it has to be a port city, it only means that the ships export the wealth of the city's goods to the world showing it is a center for commerce.

The idea that the beast and the woman are separate entities is correct - but they are intimately aquainted- where the beast is, the woman is- she rides the beast. The beast is the final kingdom and the woman is the mystery Babylon- the idea that it is called a "mystery" itself shows that this has a mystical meaning- it is not obvious, but hidden. We know that eventually the beast and its kings will hate the harlot and burn her with fire- again this is a theme that the prophets speak of often- how Jerusalem's lovers will turn against her and seek to destroy her. The following passage speaks of how this is God's purpose as well, and if you are familiar with the old testament at all you know what His purpose is- to refine and purge Israel and the city -Jerusalem. (See Daniel 9:24-" for your people and your holy city") The passage says until the words of God will be fulfilled- the words of God through the prophets. And what is that fulfillment- the great city that reigns over the kings of earth- Jerusalem- the city of God- Zion and its people Israel- will reign over the kings of earth. (perhaps this line is speaking of the fulfillment in the future)


Revelation 17:16-18
16 “And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.
17 “For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled.
18 “The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”


Also this passage is key


Revelation 18:24
24 “And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth.”

Scripture is fairly clear as to who is responsible- Jesus said it himself:


Matthew 23:33-37
33 “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city,
35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
36 “Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.



Luke 11:49-52
49 “For this reason also the wisdom of God said, ‘I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,
50 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation,
51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’
52 “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge; you yourselves did not enter, and you hindered those who were entering.”

Also something I only recently thought about concerning the image in Daniel 2:31-45- the colossus of the King's dream- with the head of gold, the breast and arms of silver, the thighs of bronze, the legs of iron and the feet and toes of iron and clay. This image shows all the kingdoms that will rule particularly over the nation of Israel and Jerusalem. But here's the kicker- the stone


Daniel 2:34-35
34 “You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them.
35 “Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.


Daniel 2:43-45
43 “And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.
44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever.
45 “Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

The stone strikes the feet and becomes a mountain that will eventually fill the whole earth. We know what this mountain is- mount Zion, it is the millennial kingdom whose center is Jerusalem. The mountain of the Lord- mount Zion is Jerusalem. Since the stone strikes the final kingdom and where it strikes is where it's own kingdom is established, it seems to be that the final kingdom is located in Jerusalem.

Not to mention that the Antichrist will seat himself in the temple proclaiming himself to be God (2Thess 2) He will desire to rule as God from the temple in Jerusalem. He is the leader of mystery Babylon and he will sit himself upon the place of God's throne on earth- Jerusalem.

The old testament speaks often of how Jerusalem and Israel will be purged throughout the time of the end. It is at Jerusalem that the Lord will stand when He returns


Zechariah 14:2-10
2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city.
3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle.
4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
6 In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle.
7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.
8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.
9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth; in that day the Lord will be the only one, and His name the only one.
10 All the land will be changed into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; but Jerusalem will rise and remain on its site from Benjamin’s Gate as far as the place of the First Gate to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s wine presses.


There is more compelling evidence supported by scripture that Jerusalem is in fact the great city where the final kingdom will reign from- Mystery Babylon. But I will stop here to keep this post a manageable length.

RT

Wally
November 12th, 2010, 08:50 AM
If we could identify Babylon, would she be a Mystery?

Perhaps a telling item is this:

She rides a dragon-beast, red which hints that she profits from war. She may even be the mouth piece that facilitates the false peace. She is mobile, she has influence over all the world to the point of orchestrating commerce and religion - everywhere. She could be any city, yet there is none quite like her. To have such dominance would really make her stand out.

Once the OWG forms, Her power can consolidate. Rome, Je'lem, Babylon....

It will be a place - protected, rich, lavish, and most likely a false decadence, appearing pure, but underneath a vile den of depravity and godlessness.

Were we able to identify her now, I suspect it might be possible to evoke contempt for her, but that is Lords scheduling for it will be her own kings that turn on her and destroy her. That she becomes such a smoking ruin, to me precludes her from being Je'lem for that city is rent in two then purged and made the dwelling place for Christ's 1000 year reign.

No the mystery remains. But she will rise once the opportunity comes.