Emergent Rob Bell *Merged*

[Harley]

Again - it's been fun... but in the long run none of this discussion matters... and I gotta pack for a week at the beach - what say we discuss Foster next time? :thumb

Your brother in Christ - [...no really, I am]

Harley

[corby]

OK - although there is no context I'll still respond.

Bell has said two things:
Ultimate reality is found in Jesus Christ - VE
One of the lies is that truth only resides in this particular community or that particular thought system...I affirm the truth anywhere in any religious system, in any worldview...if it's true, then it's from God. - undocumented

Everyone is so quick to assume the second negates the first - or they just ignore the first because picking on him is more fun... but I digress...

If a Jew says God is one - is that not truth?
If a Buddhist says abortion is murder - is that not truth?
If a Muslim says stealing is sin - is that not truth?
If a secular humanists says 1+1=2 - is that not truth?

Therefore I agree - ultimate and final truth is found in Jesus Christ... but since all truth is God's truth, no matter where it is found it is of God.

Again, NBD.

Extemely big deal!

What is this ultimate reality anyway? I have yet to hear that defined in Biblical terms.

You are confusing what is true (as in a factual statement) and truth. 1+1=2 is true and factual, but I don't know many who would call it a "truth". The practical application of what you are implying leads to all kinds of compromise. Should I then agree with the Buddhist, the Muslim, the Humanist and leave it at that? You are blurring a very, very important line that God Himself has drawn.

Deut. 13:1-5
1 “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder,
2 “and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’--which you have not known--‘and let us serve them,’
3 “you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4 “You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice, and you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
5 “But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst.
The false prophet speaks a truth because the dream comes to pass or the sign is validated (shown as a truth). Does that mean it came from God? This false prophet then leads people away from God. God tells us not to listen to that false prophet (even though the things came to pass and were therefore truth). We are to walk after Him, fear Him, keep His commandments, obey His voice, serve Him and hold fast to Him, not even if they speak truth. What about that speaker of truth? God says he is to be put to death because he is trying to lead us away from God, indeed it is a test from God.

Notice at the end, "So you shall put away the evil from your midst." A speaker of truth? Evil? Yes indeedy. God says to put it away, you and Bell say to find the truth in it. Bell says he affirms truth in any system, God tells Israel not to intermarry so that there is no shred of falshood in His camp. Bell says he affirms truth in any worldview, God says He determins our worldview. You are misusing and abusing John 14:6. In no way is Jesus even remotely trying to communicate "I am the Truth, there is truth in other places, therefore that truth is Me or came from Me." It isn't a=b, b=c, therefore a=c. Jesus isn't inclusive, He is exclusive. He is the only way, the only truth, the only life. Any way, truth, or life, found outside of Him, even if it is reflective, in agreement, or parallel to God's word, isn't of Him or from Him. You and Bell are making it say what you want it to say, despite the example of the rest of scripture.

I'm laughing out loud and how easy and stupid this is. Bell says "One of the lies is that truth only resides in this particular community or that particular thought system...I affirm the truth anywhere in any religious system, in any worldview...if it's true, then it's from God." God says that His community is not to be contaminated by any other and the only source of truth. Paul tells us in Philippians to have the mind of Christ, to have His thought system, not anyone elses. God says His is the only religious system and to keep all others out of the camp, that His is the only worldview.

Bell and God are in conflict. I strongly exhort everyone to stick with God.

[corby]

Again - it's been fun... but in the long run none of this discussion matters... and I gotta pack for a week at the beach - what say we discuss Foster next time? :thumb

Your brother in Christ - [...no really, I am]

Harley

And therein lay the carelessness and casualness with which the EC handles God's word. None of this matters? God's truth doesn't matter? I guess we can believe what we want as long as there is some truth in it, because that means Jesus is in it and that's all that really matters. :twitch

[FunMudder]

Harley, repeatedly that same quote has been put up here with all of its context, sheesh.

No one is picking on him, we are picking on his new ideas about what God actually says.

And I totally agree with Kung. You have decided that there is nothing wrong with his theology, ignore all the quotes from the man himself that conflict GREATLY with what scripture actually says. You ears are tickled and liking it.

None are so blind as those who refuse to see, and I will pray you do start to see, that we all have our eyes open. Defending ANY mans message when alarms are being sounded from many other believers, begs the question: why?

Why is it the 'fundies', the watchdogs, the ones searching the scriptures daily to see if what a man says is true, (and I'm talking about everyone, respected Christian journalists, speakers, pastors, the mods here, ALL of them) why are they the ones crying foul so loudly? Are they all incapable of indepentant thought and understanding scripture? Is Rob Bell suddenly the only voice of reason and everyone who has been in the scriptures longer than he has even been alive, are they ALL so wrong when seeing a lie for what it is?
:rolleyes

Defend the word of God, not some new culturally irrelevant writings of a falliable mortal man.

[FunMudder]

And therein lay the carelessness and casualness with which the EC handles God's word. None of this matters? God's truth doesn't matter? I guess we can believe what we want as long as there is some truth in it, because that means Jesus is in it and that's all that really matters. :twitch

Word.

If it sounds right it must BE right, and if it's wrong, well maybe it's just wrong or a different truth for you.

Seriously foolish.

[Harley]

And therein lay the carelessness and casualness with which the EC handles God's word. None of this matters? God's truth doesn't matter? I guess we can believe what we want as long as there is some truth in it, because that means Jesus is in it and that's all that really matters. :twitch

And herein lies an example of comment twisting and meaning insertion. I never said God's truth doesn't matter, I never implied it. - you inserted that meaning into what I wrote.

I said "this discussion" does not matter, since minds are made up and even when blatant comments are refuted (e.g. Bell does not believe in truth) it's ignored... you take this and respond with indignation that "God's truth doesn't matter?"

Again, I guess precision is too much to ask...

[corby]

Are there any lurkers gleaning any wisdom from this? Please say that there are.

[Harley]

Harley, repeatedly that same quote has been put up here with all of its context, sheesh.....

I said it was undocumented... that is, when quoted no primary source was given so that the context could be found... a secondary source was mentioned... That's the difference.

[Harley]

This is becoming too personal - when my motives and status start to become the issue it's obviously time to move on... I'll not attempt to refute your position of spiritual superiority over me...

[corby]

And herein lies an example of comment twisting and meaning insertion. I never said God's truth doesn't matter, I never implied it. - you inserted that meaning into what I wrote.

I said "this discussion" does not matter, since minds are made up and even when blatant comments are refuted (e.g. Bell does not believe in truth) it's ignored... you take this and respond with indignation that "God's truth doesn't matter?"

Again, I guess precision is too much to ask...

That is exactly what you implied. Part of "this discussion" is the nature of God's truth and to say that none of it mattered includes that. It is clear that Bell does not believe in a Biblical concept of God's truth as I demonstrated above in poast 122. Bell's nature of truth and God's nature of truth are in conflict. You have not refuted anything. You can't. It's irrefutable. There is no refute for it. Bell isn't in agreement with the way scripture defines and determines and limts truth, he is instead redefining and broading what the Bible says so that it agree with him.